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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 05, 2011 01:11 PM |
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Very interesting post JJ 
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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avalon00x
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
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posted December 05, 2011 01:30 PM |
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Quote:
+1000 for everything : Magic blue deck is a joke - from the basic phantom warrior to elemental flyer - and Necro is broken as snow 
Some points about Necro being OP :
- 4 Heals : Ghost (heals too much if there are adjacent units), Race ability, Archliches, Vampire lord (15%, weak yet add it with a Magic heroes life drain +60 %, and the old vampire is back)
- Archlich strongest ranged unit in the game. No range archery penalties, extremely high damage for a ranged unit. Combine that with their heal, and with high number they resurrect alot of troops
- Absolutely overpowered Buy-back. You pay +50 % for every troops dead in the past 4-8 days and it's -10% per each same building you own. Late game Necro is absolutely unstoppable.
- Dynasties weapon makes them even more OP than other races. Archlich buff, life drain percentage... can't remember the name of this dynasty weapon.
- Ghouls are very strong all around and too cost-efficient.
The only cons (which doesn't mean that much..):
- Putrid Lamasu is useless, expensive and doesn't add anything concrete
- Elite unit are lacklusters
- Skeleton , although ranged, doesn't do much damage.
If these points don't convince anybody, they are either noobs, can't analyse at all, misinformed, or just don't want to see the truth.
So you manage to list some Pro's and Cons of a faction on its own, and that is all everyone really seems to be able of doing.
Hower the Only faction in a severe disadvantage against necro is Inferno. Due to the lack of heal / Gimped racial ability nearly same spells as Necro but not being able to use most against necro effectively. Other then that All factions are on a simmiliar level as necro Especialy when you calculate in that necro is one of the two factions that dousnt have access to light magic Wich is the most and completely imba Magic school there is. Furthermore with no morale you Never have a chance on an aditional 50% damage.
The Buying back units is completely situational In some cases you are right and it can be game changing However:.
1: early game no faction should be losing units.
2: It really shoudnt be comming that late game that you have every building and can buy back all the units you lose. and can afford all your units per week let alone those units you lost at an additional price.
3: Other factions have a different usefull racial unique buildings
4: assuming it gets this late game Other factions will be blowing their money that you spend on buying creatures back on Some kick ass artifacts wich you wont have access to.
5: other factions are faster and with hit and run tacticks you will be unable to afford your buying back.
oh did i mention Retribution aura in the right hands rapes necro?
Now physicly the necro units are weaker. core necro vs core stronghold or haven anyone? = necro loses
Dynasty weapons counter necro pretty hard aswell. what you are claiming goes for every faction. a nonsence argument.
I am not saying necro is bad but it is certainly not as OP as most of you all seem to claim and really using campaign maps as an indicater? just what are you thinking. some other campaign maps would be harder even if necro would be playing those. (not neccecairly pointing at you )
Necro is strong But certainly Counterable. This makes necro viable
just as Haven, Sanctuary , Stronghold.
Regarding your last comment. It shows in poor taste to try to alienate people from trying to disagree with you. I hope you will be able to refrain yourself from Discussing things like that as all it dous is show your poor character.
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted December 05, 2011 01:34 PM |
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Edited by kodial79 at 13:42, 05 Dec 2011.
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@forest001
Impossible, I meant, it would be the whole thing that I began describing, not just the Town Screens. Though the Town Screens by themselves will not be an easy achievement, and the possibility that they won't make anything good, is still there and strong.
A lot of games introduce such changes to their gameplay, through time. Heroes V changed its skill tree a lot through the expansions, I expect Heroes VI to do the same.
League of Legends and other games, keep updating the avatars of their characters to new and better ones, I don't see why Heroes VI would not do that either.
About bringing more content including new and old that wasn't in the original release, is something that can be taken care of in expansions.
Anti-Aliasing is a must, game looks ugly, period. It's stupid that we're in 2011, and they publish a game with Anti-Aliasing support.
Heroes V had 8 factions, Heroes III had 9, do you mean to say that Heroes VI should stay with 5? Come the expansions and new factions will be added, I just hope it will reach 9 again. Even 8 would be good... New games should have more not less.
I don't hold my hopes up that they would ditch common pools and free hero recruitment, tweak Town Portals and make the game more strategic. Even though these demands are very popular within the community. It would just be nice if they would do it.
It's not unheard of, for a game to change an unpopular feature after the fans demanded that. I mean, even UbiHole with Town Screens, from no Town Screens at all to Town Windows and now we got them running with their pants on fire to create proper Town Screens, which serves them right.
Ofcourse, these aren't as urgent as Town Screens, but the game doesn't reach a 10/10 for me, as long as it has such features.
In any case, eventually I will return to Heroes V and III. After every expansion will be released, and when the game will not feel new anymore, I can see already playing Heroes V and III when I wanna play HoMM, and not Heroes VI which will probably gather dust in the shelf. Well, unless these changes will be made.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 05, 2011 01:44 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
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By the way, something cannot be overpowered by itself, only in comparison.
So what? This statement is true, but since nobody denied this, it still fails to make a difference.
So in practise you must break the wall around the Liches and deal with the Namtarus who are powerful as well.
On the other hand, finding the balance here game-wise is rather difficult, because it cannot be a matter of course either. It SHOULD NOT be easy to beat the best strategy of a town - it's just that Necro strategy is so obvious and unspectacular.
Still, from a construction point of view, in any normal game, you need ARCHliches to really make the most of Liches turtling. Building Archliches, however, will completely cripple your building economy. You need 19 Ore and 16 Crystals for those (10.000 gold are less of a problem), which will be a massive strain for your economy. Especially with a view on Crystal needs for Champion creature basic building and Ore for Fortifications.
In contrast to that, Inferno is in a good position to come up with Champs early, forgoing Elites completely, depending on the map.
So what I would much more like to see than weakening Necro to the point that they virtually HAVE to turtle and defend as a matter of course to even stand a chance of surving a battle, is a general strengthening of the anti-turtle weaponry available.
Making Liches 2x2 creatures might have worked wonders here as well.
No offense to you, but You just indirectly admitted you agreed on the points we were making.
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forest001
Known Hero
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posted December 05, 2011 01:46 PM |
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adding new factions is in store as far as i know so wouldn't worry about that one too much  it just takes time (and i prefer 8 without conflux  )
some changes are likely, like adding new spells here and there, but huge overhaul is unlikely and most likely quite controversial.
I like most of the new features, even though i realize i'm not in majority (at least on this boards) so ditching area of control etc. would be huge minus for me, and most games don't do such a radical changes because ppl don't like changes (and you are no different )
Offtop: and LoL doesn't do big changes at all, they just add new champions and some balance tweaks for old one like mini expansion every week or so
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 05, 2011 01:52 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 13:54, 05 Dec 2011.
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Quote:
oh did i mention Retribution aura in the right hands rapes necro?
That's no argument, currently Retribution Aura rapes everything. The cool thing is that Necropolis can come out victorious even despite it.
Quote:
Now physicly the necro units are weaker. core necro vs core stronghold or haven anyone? = necro loses
A common misconception, they aren't. The Ghouls are a very decent Core melee creature and the Ghosts and overpowered in pretty much every aspect compared to most of the other Cores in the game. Only the Skeletons aren't anything special. No need to comment the Elites and especially the Champion.
At the moment Necropolis can be countered effectively only by Haven.
Quote:
There is also no good area spell (generally) - Poison Cloud might be one, but not against Necro.
Isn't it working against undead now? It was working during the beta but you could just ignore it - Necromancy alone would bring back all the loses from it and as long as the turtle is not threatened by something else, the spell is no threat itself.
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 05, 2011 01:55 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
POST
So you manage to list some Pro's and Cons of a faction on its own, and that is all everyone really seems to be able of doing.
Hower the Only faction in a severe disadvantage against necro is Inferno. Due to the lack of heal / Gimped racial ability nearly same spells as Necro but not being able to use most against necro effectively. Other then that All factions are on a simmiliar level as necro Especialy when you calculate in that necro is one of the two factions that dousnt have access to light magic Wich is the most and completely imba Magic school there is. Furthermore with no morale you Never have a chance on an aditional 50% damage.
The Buying back units is completely situational In some cases you are right and it can be game changing However:.
1: early game no faction should be losing units.
2: It really shoudnt be comming that late game that you have every building and can buy back all the units you lose. and can afford all your units per week let alone those units you lost at an additional price.
3: Other factions have a different usefull racial unique buildings
4: assuming it gets this late game Other factions will be blowing their money that you spend on buying creatures back on Some kick ass artifacts wich you wont have access to.
5: other factions are faster and with hit and run tacticks you will be unable to afford your buying back.
oh did i mention Retribution aura in the right hands rapes necro?
Now physicly the necro units are weaker. core necro vs core stronghold or haven anyone? = necro loses
Dynasty weapons counter necro pretty hard aswell. what you are claiming goes for every faction. a nonsence argument.
I am not saying necro is bad but it is certainly not as OP as most of you all seem to claim and really using campaign maps as an indicater? just what are you thinking. some other campaign maps would be harder even if necro would be playing those. (not neccecairly pointing at you )
Necro is strong But certainly Counterable. This makes necro viable
just as Haven, Sanctuary , Stronghold.
Regarding your last comment. It shows in poor taste to try to alienate people from trying to disagree with you. I hope you will be able to refrain yourself from Discussing things like that as all it dous is show your poor character.
First of all sorry for being rude on the last comment. I was just stating the obvious.
I can list the basic advantages / convenients of every faction, compare them to each other (would be long but I can do it), and in the end it would still be like this :
Necro OP
Sanctuary / Haven strong
Stronghold balanced
Inferno UP
Unless some visionnaries / experts find a new strategy for 1.1.1 patch, I don't see the balance changing that much.
It's a shame because it's the first Heroes I enjoy absolutely every factions (esp. Necro / Stronghold are badass).
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 05, 2011 01:58 PM |
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I'd like to put in here, that 1.2 will see a Retribution Aura cap of 30%.
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted December 05, 2011 02:02 PM |
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Quote:
adding new factions is in store as far as i know so wouldn't worry about that one too much it just takes time (and i prefer 8 without conflux )
some changes are likely, like adding new spells here and there, but huge overhaul is unlikely and most likely quite controversial.
I like most of the new features, even though i realize i'm not in majority (at least on this boards) so ditching area of control etc. would be huge minus for me, and most games don't do such a radical changes because ppl don't like changes (and you are no different )
Offtop: and LoL doesn't do big changes at all, they just add new champions and some balance tweaks for old one like mini expansion every week or so
I mentioned LoL as an example, that they're changing their champions' avatars. Latest is Gangplank, they made him look cool finally! This was brought as an example, considering that some units (Water and Light Elementals) are in dire need of new designs.
Not ditching the are of control, I didn't mention this. And I think it's generally a welcomed new feature. I like it too. But ditching the common pool and the free hero recruitment after loosing him, would be nice. Game is very forgiving, they should tone that down and make it harder not by tweaking the AI cause no matter how hard it will still be easy, but by removing some of the simplifying features.
Example, if Town Portals remained as is but cost some resources, people would think twice before abusing them and maybe try to play more carefully... If a Hero would not be cheaply or even free available for recruitment after losing a fight, people would be forced to be more careful, etc. etc.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 05, 2011 02:09 PM |
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Quote:
I mentioned LoL as an example, that they're changing their champions' avatars. Latest is Gangplank, they made him look cool finally! This was brought as an example, considering that some units (Water and Light Elementals) are in dire need of new designs.
League of Legends ? Have you tried Heroes of Newerth for a superior experience, or Dota 1 / Dota 2 ?
LOL, if anything, isn't an example unless you own some shares of Riot Games.
The game is just (combined) : terrible gameplay, unskillful, ugly, very expensive...
Every new cosmectics is like 10 $ or 7 € ... Great game indeed.
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted December 05, 2011 02:13 PM |
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Quote:
I mentioned LoL as an example, that they're changing their champions' avatars. Latest is Gangplank, they made him look cool finally! This was brought as an example, considering that some units (Water and Light Elementals) are in dire need of new designs.
League of Legends ? Have you tried Heroes of Newerth for a superior experience, or Dota 1 / Dota 2 ?
LOL, if anything, isn't an example unless you own some shares of Riot Games.
The game is just (combined) : terrible gameplay, unskillful, ugly, very expensive...
Every new cosmectics is like 10 $ or 7 € ... Great game indeed.
What does this have to do with changing the appearance of some character?
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 05, 2011 02:39 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I mentioned LoL as an example, that they're changing their champions' avatars. Latest is Gangplank, they made him look cool finally! This was brought as an example, considering that some units (Water and Light Elementals) are in dire need of new designs.
League of Legends ? Have you tried Heroes of Newerth for a superior experience, or Dota 1 / Dota 2 ?
LOL, if anything, isn't an example unless you own some shares of Riot Games.
The game is just (combined) : terrible gameplay, unskillful, ugly, very expensive...
Every new cosmectics is like 10 $ or 7 € ... Great game indeed.
What does this have to do with changing the appearance of some character?
That changing minor details won't change how goddamn bad League of Legends gameplay feels. They can have 5000 avatars and 500 maps that It won't change the quality of this terrible product. Worst part of it is, i checked on their website and at ANY TIME there are 1.3 millions of players playing. Heroes of Newerth (a faaar better games) is on average 50-60.000. I guess quality =/= quantity and it applies especially on the MOBA genre.
Back on topic : Heroes 6 -which core gameplay appeals to me alot - would of course immensely gain by having dlc / multiple expansions considering its lack of contents.
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 05, 2011 02:46 PM |
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@ ExecutionerQuote:
No offense to you, but You just indirectly admitted you agreed on the points we were making.
None taken, but I DIDN'T.
@ Zenofex
Well, Posion Cloud SHOULD NOT work, since undead are immune against poison.
The effect is too low as well. What I meant was, that since Posion Cloud is a lasting effect, this might HELP, since you would have to cast it just once, but of course the effect is negligable.
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted December 05, 2011 02:47 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 14:47, 05 Dec 2011.
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Have you tried Heroes of Newerth
...
The game is just (combined) : terrible gameplay, unskillful, ugly, very expensive...
Heroes of Newerth used to make you pay for it monthly. LoL is free, and was free before DotA 2 scared the crap out of it, unlike HoN.
HoN looks like crap compared to LoL.
I agree about the skill.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 05, 2011 02:51 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Have you tried Heroes of Newerth
...
The game is just (combined) : terrible gameplay, unskillful, ugly, very expensive...
Heroes of Newerth used to make you pay for it monthly. LoL is free.
HoN looks like crap compared to LoL.
I agree about the skill.
Heroes of Newerth never charged for a monthly subscription - I played it for one year - 4 months of League of Legends also.
It used to charges you for 30 $ / 23 € for the whole game. But then they switched their business model to a free-to-play MOBA.
Hon is way more detailed, and gets a more adult graphics.
To each his own I will stop from there but simply put, if you want challenge, Hon is the best MOBA available on the market - even with the snowty Dota 2 beta.
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted December 05, 2011 02:51 PM |
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Man, I just brought that as an example, to show how it's not impossible for a character's or creature's appearance to change well after the game has been released. In Heroes VI's case, I think it's the Water and Light Elementals that need to change their appearance.
In any case, it does not have anything to do with LoL being any good or not.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 05, 2011 02:57 PM |
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Quote:
Man, I just brought that as an example, to show how it's not impossible for a character's or creature's appearance to change well after the game has been released. In Heroes VI's case, I think it's the Water and Light Elementals that need to change their appearance.
In any case, it does not have anything to do with LoL being any good or not.
Yep, and I later said it was true. Considering the crual lack of contents of Heroes 6 - though I really enjoy every units in the game - any dlc / expansions would be a day-1 purchase for me.
Seriously, there are like 6-7 neutral, and Faction units. It's OK for a vanilla game, but not when you got heroes 5 with its 2 sub-units per units !
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leonhart
Hired Hero
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posted December 05, 2011 03:06 PM |
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hey here's a thought
We shouldn't argue about the balance yet. The game is far from worth playing and things are yet to change. Even though I've had some interesting read here I think all the arguing is laughable and waste of time. Let's do something productive instead of correcting someone's opinions and complaining about the game. And if you feel need to discuss about the balance then let's make a 'tier list' thread for it. And preferably after the patch is out.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted December 05, 2011 03:15 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 15:16, 05 Dec 2011.
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Oh brother, yet another "they will fix the balance after 1 year, just wait" opinion. If you haven't noticed, some of us find it unacceptable that the current state of the balance is what it is, especially given that the good balance was one of their (fake) advertisement cries. Some 80% of the current issues with the faction/skill inequality have been spotted by the players during the beta, reported and dully ignored by Ubihole. See where I'm going?
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x-ecutionner
Known Hero
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posted December 05, 2011 03:16 PM |
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Oh brother, yet another "they will fix the balance after 1 year, just wait" opinion. If you haven't noticed, some of us find it unacceptable that the current state of the balance is what it is, especially given that the good balance was one of their (fake) advertisement cries. Some 80% of the current issues with the faction/skill inequality have been spotted by the players during the beta, reported and dully ignored by Ubihole. See where I'm going?
I agree with this awesome dude 200%
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This thread is pages long: 
