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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted November 29, 2011 03:18 AM |
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mike80d
Famous Hero
Map Maker
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posted November 29, 2011 04:52 AM |
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Quote:
Different standards.
Don't you mean different things you're looking for in a Heroes game?
Quite frankly I think I had high expectations & standards for this game, especially after following its development for over a year. My standards, though high (and realistic), were met.
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Aosaw
Promising
Famous Hero
Author of Nonreal Fiction
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posted November 29, 2011 05:53 AM |
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But Avirosb's standards were higher.
Nothing wrong with that; but just because the game met your expectations and fell woefully short of someone else's doesn't mean you were expecting different things. It just means that you have different standards of what is acceptable.
For instance, when I read a novel, and I see one or two typos in the course of a thousand pages, I don't put the book down in disgust if I'm enjoying it. Some other people might.
At the same time, I would prefer that there be no typos at all, because that is the ideal. But a book that has only two typos in a thousand pages is much closer to meeting my ideal than a book that has seventy typos in two-hundred pages.
It's kind of the same thing. You both want a game that has no typos. The game has typos; so all that makes a difference now is whether it has so many that you don't want to play the game anymore.
</extended metaphor>
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 29, 2011 08:24 AM |
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Quote:
One of the developer's biggest goals for Heroes 6 was to streamline a lot of the tedious management. While it can still use a bit of work, I'd say they did a very good job. When I've played multiplayer in Heroes6 I've found all of my time has been dedicated to fighting battles, planning my hero's development, and planning where I'm going (and in what order) on the adventure map. In addition, I always feel like I need more resources. This is the first Heroes game I can say this about, and I love it.
This. I would have wrote this and more myself but im tired of fighting whiners who didnt even buy the game.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted November 29, 2011 08:49 AM |
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Edited by Avirosb at 08:49, 29 Nov 2011.
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Quote:
I would have wrote this and more myself but im tired of fighting whiners who didnt even buy the game.
Then don't? Just play the game and don't listen to the whining,
but don't forget that you are the winners here while the whiners are the losers.
Because you got the product you wanted.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 29, 2011 09:02 AM |
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Yes, i do that. Thats why i keep my posts within 2 lines.
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted November 29, 2011 09:15 AM |
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Quote:
One of the developer's biggest goals for Heroes 6 was to streamline a lot of the tedious management. While it can still use a bit of work, I'd say they did a very good job. When I've played multiplayer in Heroes6 I've found all of my time has been dedicated to fighting battles, planning my hero's development, and planning where I'm going (and in what order) on the adventure map. In addition, I always feel like I need more resources. This is the first Heroes game I can say this about, and I love it.
I consider this to be one of the bad things of the game, actually.
If I wanted to just do battles and level up my hero, I could always play King's Bounty.
But this here be Heroes of Might and Magic, and I expect something more out of it that King's Bounty lacks. That 'more' is management.
By ridding the game of this element or just simplifying it, they have achieved to make it lose it's first place on the TBS genre to King's Bounty.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted November 29, 2011 09:54 AM |
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I for myself foud KB boring and hardly chanalanging.
The game consisted of repeted runnunig from one part of the map to another avoiding difficult batles and easily winning those you engaged. It had sevaral good mechanics, like the Spell lerning system and rune priced skill system. But the game itself was tedius
I Have to Agree with Kodial that if the management features will be further on simplified the game will end in exactly such tedius boring repetition.
One thing I think H6 has done better then KB are the Bosses. (Note: I only played Legends) Not only that H6 has a larger inicial number of them (9vs3) But they are also done in a much divers way. Ofcorce KB came with the ID of bosses in TBS and we have to give it credit for that. But I think H6 had a better aproche to them.
Sure there are bosses like DE or AW that are for 1 very similar, for 2 to some part booring. Bu others Like C, M surprised me by there mechanics, especila M was well designed in my eyes (not hard but well designed) and also MN on the Hearts of nightmares was more then a nightmare. Also the Idea behind Az was in my eyes very good
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted November 29, 2011 10:06 AM |
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Well, comparing it to MMH6 where every battle consists of a flawless victory, I'd say KB's battles were more thrilling.
I have played Armored Princess only, the bosses there were hard to beat. I have only fought against Hai Ryou in MMH6 and he was as easy as neutral monsters. No challenge there at all. I hope the other bosses aren't as easy to beat but I don't expect it either.
King's Bounty Armored Princess at least had better bosses, albeit a bit silly looking but that's just the art style of the game. MMH6's bosses on the other hand, are very uncreative and simple on their designs or just buffed up versions of already existing units, very unimaginative.
King's Bounty is an open world game where you got to run up and down and picking the fights at your leisure. (Damn, speaking about it, makes me miss it)
There were fights impossible to beat in front of you, that you had to avoid and come back to later when you were stronger. Heroes VI doesn't have that, every fight is easy, manageable even if you had half the troops, and tedious as in you do the same things over and over.
Though MMH6 offers a great tactical depth to the fights, due to dreadful balance, some tactics overpower the other and makes you do the same things over and over.
King's Bounty at least had you changing your army as the game was progressing and forcing to try different approach in the battles.
Heroes clear advantage over King's Bounty was the management. But with that dumped down, it's brought on King's Bounty level where it cannot compare.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted November 29, 2011 10:21 AM |
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But the management part ISN'T simpler - on the contrary.
In earlier game incarnations, if we leave out the mage guilds for a moment your building opportunities were more dictated by availability of SPECIFIC resources. Most of the time you didn't have that many options to do something - Heroes 5 had strict prerequsites for building, so there was a certain build order to follow. Additionally, you would either be able to build a certain building or not. If not, you'd build something else. For example, if you play 5 on highest difficulty you need to find more Sulfur, if you want to be able to build Mages in week 1. If there is none or not enough for the taking, you simply can't do it - you can, however, take the full Golem road.
That is, if you don't want to go Mage Guild, forgoing Mages anyway.
In Heroes 6 you have much more freedom to build, and the actual "management" is much moredifficult in terms of extrapolating the amount of resources in terms of what you will get within the week and what will or may be possible to build and what not in order to maximize efficiency, considering tht upgrades add to creature growth as well.
On the otherhand the mage guilds - which were the ACTUAL either/or decision making builds until now are absent.
So that means, that building decisions have been taken from The Might Or The Magic (and how to find the best compromise) to WHICH BUILDINGS THIS WEEK.
Add to this the fact that, comes second town, the WHICH BUILDINGS problems will become more pronounced, while the Might Or Magic approach will become less accentuated once you do have it in one town, and Heroes 6 actually needs more management.
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted November 29, 2011 10:41 AM |
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Edited by SKPRIMUS at 10:42, 29 Nov 2011.
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Mike80D wrote:Quote:
One of the developer's biggest goals for Heroes 6 was to streamline a lot of the tedious management. While it can still use a bit of work, I'd say they did a very good job. When I've played multiplayer in Heroes6 I've found all of my time has been dedicated to fighting battles, planning my hero's development, and planning where I'm going (and in what order) on the adventure map. In addition, I always feel like I need more resources. This is the first Heroes game I can say this about, and I love it.
Excuse me for saying this, but I've always spent my time in a heroes game "dedicated to fighting battles, planning my hero's development, and planning where I'm going (and in what order) on the adventure map"...as well as planning town building...in every heroes game [not just H6 and also in single player too]
btw I like KB & it's also suitable for casual not-skilled player on easy [but there is less planning of hero movement efficiency, no town build planning etc so KB is not really comparable to the whole heroes thing other than hero statistics & tactical battle itself.] You can get flawless victories nearly every time later in the game at higher levels as well.
H6 used some good ideas from KB.
I really like some decisions they made in the gameplay for H6 that improved a lot from H5TotE but others don't list for some reason...but I might detail that in another thread later.
sidenote: Back in other threads some time ago, I too originally didn't like comments by Avirosb & disagreed with them, but eventually came to realise people like different things & have come to smile at & enjoy his humour & non-confrontational language & so I have no problems [he does similar on Ubi forums too ]...but some others are not so humourous...
The thing that riles me a bit more is campaign spoilers [which I'm glad Dave_Jame has tried to hide here]
*slips quietly out of thread*
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Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus 
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted November 29, 2011 10:43 AM |
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I think there's more management to be found in taking care that you can build something and choosing what to build rather than simply choosing what to build.
There was a whole game in there, now you don't even need to second guess yourself. You don't need to visit the marketplace, you don't need to think about which town should get priority in your building plans (Aside from the advanced town portals), in fact you're just worry-free but this is not how the management section should be.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted November 29, 2011 10:47 AM |
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And this is the point we disagree in.
You have a conflict of basic mechanics
Weeks and Structures in Heroes Vs leadeeship and locations in KB
Both provide you with unites. and both fallow the same principle. chose the easy fights, get the bonuse and go on to the next one, more dificult one. What is he difference? In Heroes it is theoreticly easier. You just push a buton 7 times and you have new unites. well it is not that easier. You see in heroes you have your unites and if you are not a Necro or heaven hero in H6 with a specicik structure and you lose them, you lose them for good. While in KB You have infinity amount of unites so loosing them is not that much of a topic (except the amounght of gold ofcorse)
Most of your facts are based on a symple thing, your game style, While I have to agree that the skill limitation of H6 is bad in my eyes, I do not think that KB was any better, You as well focused on a small amount of skills/spells you considered the most usefull and also used them over and over in repetition. There is littel difference in that.
I do not know about the Bosses in AP but those in Legends were more the symple in designe (2 out of 3 were static).
And I have a final advice to you. Heroes VI lets you outnumber the Boss very easily. This is a good thing. The younger players can have there fun and those that want a chalange can (and now I want you to pay focuse)always descide to replay the Boss fight with a smaller, more chalenging army, You can always split your army, there is no limits to that. Heck you can even have a competiton who kills a prticular boss with a smaller army and lesure casualties
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted November 29, 2011 10:53 AM |
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Why would I wanna do that?
Why would I go easy on it when I can overpower it with little to no effort? The thing is that it's not me who should hold back to face a challenge, but the enemy to be more challenging even when I attack them with what I got best.
As for King's Bounty's recruiting system, yeah, it sucked. You had to run up and down to the spawning points to gather more troops. But that just the thing right there, in Heroes VI you don't need to do that because the fights are so easy, you destroy everything in your path until you reach the next town to conquer it and get more army.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 29, 2011 10:59 AM |
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Quote:
But that just the thing right there, in Heroes VI you don't need to do that because the fights are so easy, you destroy everything in your path until you reach the next town to conquer it and get more army.
Same thing was in all previous parts. Only difference is that u had bunch of heroes chained to move an army which was more of a pain then a pleasure to do.
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kodial79
Promising
Supreme Hero
How'd Phi's Lov't
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posted November 29, 2011 11:06 AM |
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Edited by kodial79 at 11:08, 29 Nov 2011.
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Quote:
Quote:
But that just the thing right there, in Heroes VI you don't need to do that because the fights are so easy, you destroy everything in your path until you reach the next town to conquer it and get more army.
Same thing was in all previous parts. Only difference is that u had bunch of heroes chained to move an army which was more of a pain then a pleasure to do.
Actually it was my favorite part...
Organizing my army under the banner of many different heroes and advancing strategically throughout the map. Guarding the rear with one army while breaking through with another, conquering a new town and having to think about how many troops to leave there if it's vulnerable to attack. Those were epic games.
Here you don't have to worry about these things. It seems like the adventure of a lone hero than the chronicles of a war.
Most of the maps are designed in a way where you march from start to finish without care about of ever going back. In previous games, there were more paths and you had to divide your army to cover all possible routes of attack and defense. It was much better like that for me, more diverse.
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Signature? I don't need no stinking signature!
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted November 29, 2011 11:27 AM |
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Quote:
Organizing my army under the banner of many different heroes and advancing strategically throughout the map. Guarding the rear with one army while breaking through with another, conquering a new town and having to think about how many troops to leave there if it's vulnerable to attack. Those were epic games.
Wow, now i know where posts like "this game is dumb and boring! you have to click next turn 100 times to get enough army to complete that mission" come from. They really should move back homm from rpg to a strategy section.
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted November 29, 2011 11:31 AM |
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Quote:
Less RPG, more strategy
Yes please.
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avalon00x
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
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posted November 29, 2011 11:35 AM |
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[quote
Most of the maps are designed in a way where you march from start to finish without care about of ever going back. In previous games, there were more paths and you had to divide your army to cover all possible routes of attack and defense. It was much better like that for me, more diverse.
isnt it completely opposite to that? i thought that more often then not an area has 2 , 3 exits and entrances. wich is why townportal and townportal advanced are so important right?
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Dave_Jame
Promising
Legendary Hero
I'm Faceless, not Brainless.
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posted November 29, 2011 11:41 AM |
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Quote:
Why would I wanna do that?
Why would I go easy on it when I can overpower it with little to no effort? The thing is that it's not me who should hold back to face a challenge, but the enemy to be more challenging even when I attack them with what I got best.
This is as valid argument as "Why do I have to play on hard when there is Easy setting in the game" The answer is symple FOR THE CHALANGE and in my eyes this is what makes the difference between Chlidren gamers and Adult ones
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This thread is pages long: 
