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Doomforge
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posted April 17, 2012 12:32 PM |
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Poland started to scare me. Seriously.
I am afraid to read any news regarding Breivik's trial. That's because comments like "in 100 years he will be considered a hero when muslims overtake us" and "he eliminated potential communists and party leaders" have like 70-75% positive votes.
Seriously, where's this country coming? Is there any difference between that and Nazi Germany's attempts to eliminate the "threat" of Jewish "expansion" ?
The nation that has been murdered in industrial scale along with Jews - 80 year later, most of them applaud a guy that went on to murder 77 kids "because they were at a socialdemocrat camp".
I really don't want to live here. This country is in deep dark ages of humane thinking. It's chauvinistic, racist and devoid of any rational thinking, and worst of it all: the genocide has taught them nothing. They are getting bloodthirsty already and secretly applaud that guy for killing "commies".
It's actually horrible. I wouldn't be surprised to see another Fuhrer rise in the next 50 years or so. Just let the crisis strike hard and I'm sure there will be lynches on Arabs, Jews, Blacks and "commies". My nation isn't progressing in enlightened thinking: they are rapidly going back to the beginning of 20th century.
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OhforfSake
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posted April 17, 2012 12:51 PM |
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I am not certain you've really shown how compelling your evidence is for such generalisations. Though it's given you have way more experience with your country than I ever will. I can only find something similar, from my own experiences regarding news papers, from tabloids.
Tabloids attract people who're interested in tabloid material. In many cases, they want it big, disgusting and here and now. Which the case you mention is an example of. If the 70-75% is merely a poll on some tabloid paper, it quite clearly follows that it's not something one can apply for generalisation. In my country we also have such tabloids, on other forums, their discussion participants are used as examples of worst possible forum users. Heck these days tabloids are so bad that they purposefully make misleading headlines and misrepresents the material in question to attract and arouse emotions in their readers. Because that's what sells papers, who cares about integrity then?
In any case, according to the polish parts of my family, the polish people were not nice towards jews during or after second world war. Jewish heritage, not belief (just to stress it was not a question of choice), was looked down upon big time. E.g. it gave problems for my grand father despite he serving a role as a judge.
Anyway, if something like that does happen within 50 years, we can only hope it'll a benevolent dictator, like mvass.
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Doomforge
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posted April 17, 2012 01:01 PM |
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It's the biggest polish news portal. A big part of Poles - esp. young/middle aged- start the day by reading the news there.
if 75% of people aged by average at 15-35 years support Breivik, it's a very clear sign that something terribly wrong is going on with younger Poles, and that can only lead to worse.
Even many of my own friends relentlessly bash "commies" and "Arabs", considering them the scourge of the world.
To be honest this is scary.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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OhforfSake
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posted April 17, 2012 01:14 PM |
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The tabloid paper I mentioned also happened to be the biggest one where I'm from. The segment attracted to certain aspects of the media is likely very unique in their opinion. This will not reflect the opinion of the common person -, and the common reader. Despite the tabloid wishing it to be so and even trying to apply their voting for articles.
In any case, you may be right that it does reflect the opinion. There's still a world between thinking and doing. No matter how disgusting what someone think is, that's their own deal entirely.
Btw. was it an internet poll? Those are very easy to troll. You just need a semi-random ip generating proxy (can be found for free) and write a little script, which reloads the proxy page and votes.
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JoonasTo
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted April 17, 2012 01:14 PM |
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Well, that's 75% of the people who care enough to thumb up something.
Which is usually around 0.01 percent of the population or so 
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VOKIALBG
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posted April 17, 2012 01:18 PM |
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He is an anarchist. But unlike others of the kind, he acted like a real one. This is enough to go in jail. Case closed.
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OhforfSake
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posted April 17, 2012 01:20 PM |
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I don't follow how you have to kill people to act like an anarchist. Or am I missing a joke here? If so, sorry.
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Shares
Supreme Hero
I am. Thusly I am.
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posted April 17, 2012 01:52 PM |
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It's really to be expected actually. Anybody with a bit of sense that's been following the international news for a while now knows that the westerner culture seems to be failing. This for the first time in a couople of hundred years, where we westerners were the clear winners of the colonisation, then winning WW1 and WW2 was mostly won by the westerner culture, but also china and Soviet (which I would say is a westerner country, but it's kind of hard to say, for obvious reasons). After that we clearly won the cold war by conquering new technology, large and resourceful areas (especially the oilrich middle east) and the fall of the Soviet "communism" clearly crippled the east more than us.
Note that by winner I don't mean who actually won the war, but those who benefitted the most from it. I'd for example say that Sweden won WW1 more than France. After that war half of France was in ruins and ten of thousands of frensh citisens died, all which during France still had to pour huge ammounts of money into the military, all while Sweden was frollicing in income from selling wood, iron, copper and equipment to all of Europe, will suffering minimal losses.
Now, this is more speculation than the previous, we haven't won any major wars as of late. Instead we've poured money into ineffective warfare in the middle east (kind of obvious, since the US trained a lot of the forces they are fighting now, to die slowly to the Soviet troops. Showed them how to hide in the mountains and gave them the equipment they needed to actually fight the Soviets (the cold war was mostly about economy, and if the US could make smaller investments to force larger investments from Soviet, then that was good for the US)). Our economical wealth and political power has been based on getting out on top of these struggles, but now lacking struggles and not really coming out on top of the smaller ones even, then we slowly decend from the top we've claimed. I could also claim that it is the natural development of the capitalistic system we made ourselves, but that's highly speculative.
Another related observation is that desperation and blaming is often a result of bad economy. When economy is bad, then people will feel cheated, because you will usually be the one most noticably punished, while most of the rich will keep on being rich. This opens up for blame, racism and nazism. Look at the neonazi surge after the economical insecurities of the 80s and 90s. Look at the increase of extreme right wing conservatism the last ten years or so, with increased economical crisis (Teaparty in the US, SD in Sweden, DF in Denmark and there's basically one in every westerner country now, and they are all gaining followers rapidly) and even the nazi movement of Hitler started in the backwaters of the broken economy and downtrodden land of Germany after WW1.
That these tendencies are growing in popularity is hardly any surprise and I was actually expecting it to be a bit worse by now, but I can often be a bit cynical in these matters.
Now to emphasize on how I see this, I should tell you that I am hardly an emotional man. I am often called cold or distant by even my closest of friends and by my family. I rarely get noticably angry or sad and I have genuinely been afraid only twice in my life: Once when my little brother was close to being hit by a car, but that passed quickly when he wasn't. The other time is this. I've read a lot about WWII, so I know what the worst case scenario is. I know that we are heading in that direction, and I don't see any knights in shining armour coming to our rescue and as it is now I don't see the westerner culture getting out of this on our own any time soon.
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Darkshadow
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posted April 17, 2012 01:52 PM |
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Quote:
He is an anarchist. But unlike others of the kind, he acted like a real one. This is enough to go in jail. Case closed.
How can someone be an Anarcho-Fascist? 
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Baklava
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Mostly harmless
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posted April 17, 2012 01:57 PM |
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Edited by Baklava at 14:02, 17 Apr 2012.
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It's an awkward world I guess.
Of course, to say Breivik is an anarchist is like saying Hitler was a socialist. Which I thought only American republicans tend to do.
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you got the blues."
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Darkshadow
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posted April 17, 2012 02:02 PM |
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Mussolini is facepalming in his grave right now.
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Baklava
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posted April 17, 2012 02:08 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 18:40, 23 Apr 2012.
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Not that people don't facepalm at Mussolini. Karma is a *****.
MOD EDIT: Appropriate censoring.
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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del_diablo
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posted April 17, 2012 02:43 PM |
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Extremists grow from problems. Larger and more serious problems spawns more extremists, just like ye old period of the 20s in Europa, and smaller problems will spawn their own cults.
And Poland is no different. If the younger generation is racist, the real question is: "What drives the younger generation to be a bunch of racists?".
Poverty?
Ghettos?
Global corporations extorting?
Major political corruption?
The state being in a bad position to EU?
Take your pick.
I vote for Poverty(general wage level compared to its nearby nations), and Politicians attempting to earn prestige on failed integration.
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Darkshadow
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posted April 17, 2012 03:05 PM |
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Also note that politicians turn blind eye and pretend there isn't a problem.
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xerox
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posted April 17, 2012 03:43 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 15:47, 17 Apr 2012.
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There is a rise in rightwing extremism for sure, but in many cases political groups and parties that aren't racist get thrown into that category. Here, socialconservatism gets connected to rightwing extremism.
There are also problems with the immigration to Europe.
Just look at France, UK, Sweden etc. And yet these problems are largely ignored, causing people to go to more extreme parties.
I'm sure the rise of "xenophobia" would decrease a lot if the "normal" parties just started admitting that yes, there are problems and we need to fix them.
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- John Stuart Mill
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Drakon-Deus
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posted April 17, 2012 04:11 PM |
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Quote:
Also note that politicians turn blind eye and pretend there isn't a problem.
But that's true for everyone, not just Poland.
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Tsar-Ivor
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posted April 17, 2012 04:12 PM |
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Pfft the UK has no immigration problems, just a bunch of colonials trying to make a living, and the lazy side of the spectrum are using the 'immigrants' as an excuse to be lazy. I lol'd so hard when and immigrant can flawlessly pass the citizenship test while the avarage English guy fails spectacularly. 
(there's always going to be few individuals who don't abide by this generalisation)
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fauch
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posted April 17, 2012 04:22 PM |
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Edited by fauch at 16:26, 17 Apr 2012.
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listen to political figures, they know the problems, but instead of searching solutions, they search scapegoats. divide to reign...
and yeah, many comments about news make me facepalm... some people show quite an incredible level of stupidity...
well, at least I don't remember people supporting Breivik or Merah...
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Doomforge
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posted April 17, 2012 04:37 PM |
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Quote:
There is a rise in rightwing extremism for sure, but in many cases political groups and parties that aren't racist get thrown into that category. Here, socialconservatism gets connected to rightwing extremism.
There are also problems with the immigration to Europe.
Just look at France, UK, Sweden etc. And yet these problems are largely ignored, causing people to go to more extreme parties.
I'm sure the rise of "xenophobia" would decrease a lot if the "normal" parties just started admitting that yes, there are problems and we need to fix them.
There is nearly no immigration in Poland whatsover.
Poles still hate Arabs. Even though they see maybe one per year in a road-in Kebab bar.
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Lexxan
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posted April 17, 2012 04:48 PM |
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How can anyone even agree with that monstruous self-victimizing pig Breivik? HE MURDERED OVER 60 DEFENCELESS CHILDREN AND TEENAGERS WITHOUT ANY SECOND THOUGHTS, HESITATION OR REMORSE.
Even if you can *get* the reasoning behind his actions (which I can't imagine any intelligent, sensible and good-natured person understanding), there's no way to excuse, let alone laud what he did. He effing KILLED innocent minors. There's no grey to that.
The swine needs to be locked up away from any sources of attention and fanfare and be starved to death. Unfortunately, with all the attention he IS getting by the media, he gets to relish himself in megalomania, delusions of grandeur, smug self-righteous buffoonery and self-pity. DIS-GUS-TING.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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