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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 18, 2012 09:18 PM |
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Cutting welfare for immigrants has to go in parallel with cutting the welfare for the locals. Can't really see it happening. Moreover all of you spoiled pseudo-libertarian brats will do a painful face plant shortly after the welfare programs cease to exist. Half-serious here. 
By the way the French type of welfare is indeed borderline idiotic. You get more for doing nothing than you'll get if you find a minimum-salary job.
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted April 18, 2012 09:25 PM |
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Quote:
Cutting welfare for immigrants has to go in parallel with cutting the welfare for the locals
Why
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted April 18, 2012 09:27 PM |
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Because except if you have two separate programs for the immigrants and for the locals, this amounts to discrimination.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 18, 2012 09:57 PM |
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Quote:
Don't be silly, far right is far better than the pansy welfare addict liberals.
Exactly, both left and right are handcuffed by their own liberal and generous ideas from 1948. With massive immigrant waves, the concept of "share" must be adapted, not let the tap full open when no water left. Economy must be recalculated with new variables and cut through if necessary. But then comes Nocturnal shaking the "dark thoughts" vision, and it works. Every one except hard right faction is suddenly scared and prefers to remain in stand by.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 18, 2012 10:25 PM |
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So they are stealing your money now? How bad. Those people should die because you will otherwise be less rich.
I think you misunderstand something. You, or any citizen, are NOT the land-owners of France. You were simply born there and that is all. It is a piece of land that anyone, fulfilling the government's wishes, can have the citizenship of. Your being born there, or any country, is not something you deserved, but is a matter of chance, which doesn't give you any right to decide who should live there and who should not, let alone implicating you would support Breivik's doings if it was in France and was done against the Arabs there.
And it disturbs me -cause your previous post was explicitly showing this attitude- how a white, financially-secure, French-born, hetero male, behind his silken curtains is simply "disturbed" by some Arab people's breathing in the same country as he is in. This is very parallel a thing to your again being against a type of marriage you will not have anyway, simply because you think it would desanctify yours, as now Arab people have desanctified your holy land. And if that is not racism, then racism doesn't exist at all.
Trying to support your unsupportable conservative insticts with some economical non-sense just blurs the sight, but anyone can again see through it.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted April 18, 2012 10:46 PM |
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Erm last I checked all classes pay taxes.
If turning humans into parasites is your idea of equality, then I feel sorry for you.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 18, 2012 10:55 PM |
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He is just young.
Wait the day when he will be taxed 50% of his monthly revenues then he will talk more constructive and less philosophical tirades. When you work half your day to keep ridiculous welfare system alive, you have the right to ask for decisions.
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Era II mods and utilities
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted April 18, 2012 11:11 PM |
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Quote:
If turning humans into parasites is your idea of equality, then I feel sorry for you.
If that's your idea of welfare, then I feel sorry for you. because honestly, somewhere around 60-70% of the people living off of welfare are kids who couldn't "Get off their lazy buts and get a job" if they wanted to (because of, you know, child safety/ labor laws. God I hate those things, don't you?).
Also, with most countries there is a limit to both short-term and over-all welfare provisions (based on time, not amount). In the US's national welfare program you can receive welfare for two years in a row, and only five years of welfare total. It was designed to prevent parasitism, the removal of which is a policy that most countries encourage and enforce.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted April 18, 2012 11:17 PM |
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So be lazy and get paid a decent sum, or go to work, pay taxes and end up with less money to show for the labour, what fool wouldn't pick welfare. And that's why it needs to change, even if it wasn't about the money, it's degrading human morals. To turn once honest men and women into parasites, and let children be born into this moral, is truly sad.
Welfare needs to change, not to get lazy people from being lazy, but to keep honest men, women and even children from degrading in to a state of total dependancy.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 18, 2012 11:24 PM |
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Quote:
He is just young.
Wait the day when he will be taxed 50% of his monthly revenues then he will talk more constructive and less philosophical tirades. When you work half your day to keep ridiculous welfare system alive, you have the right to ask for decisions.
I guess you must be only playing Liszt and Saint Saens in your concerts, eh?
Anyway, I highly doubted that Tsar's reply was to me, cause it's quite irrelevant as there is nothing about turning people into parasites and such, but it is actually the contrary of that. But then he messaged me saying the same things. It is quite absurd how someone misses all the points of the other speaker because he is too excited to say what he wants to say. Cause gathering that I'm wishing people would turn into parasites from what I wrote is an impossible result to come from reading what I wrote.
Also I'm 6 ages older than the person you're telling that I'm young.
You're forgetting that other people in that country who are ethnically different than you also pay taxes. You also choose to forget that those citizens also work half their day like you do. And I'm pretty sure you're not working (playing piano) half your day to keep welfare alive anyway.
What you miss as philosophical tirades is a basic humanitarian concept, a person's living peacefully in a country he earned the citizenship to and what you are against is his breathing there because it makes you less rich.
Alas, you, actually, seem too immature to see that contrary to what your age would indicate. And if you have chosen this path to ignore everything humane stands for, which seems to be the case, there is nothing I or anyone can do for you.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted April 18, 2012 11:26 PM |
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Quote:
taxed 50% of his monthly revenues
You live in France. About 5% of that go to making public college education cheep or free (part of the normal schooling system), another 5% goes directly to Social Security (because old people who have retired don't like begging), about 9% goes to the insurance companies for all that stuff you have out to protect your body and assets (oh wait, that's provided by the government. Hmmm) I guess it goes to the government's pocket then, about 3% goes to heating and energy companies (higher in the winter), and then you have an income tax that takes about 23%, which leaves about 8% of your taxed income for programs that provide disability benefits, welfare programs, housing costs, expenditures, etc. 50% of your income is taken, but blaming it all on welfare is like saying the last of the fifty cars that created a pile up is what caused the crash.
Quote:
So be lazy and get paid a decent sum, or go to work, pay taxes and end up with less money to show for the labour, what fool wouldn't pick welfare.
A person who wanted to do more than just eat the bare minimum to keep alive. Also, a person who wanted to be able to eat at least that much for more than 2 years in a row.
Also, what the hell Tsar! Read what I posted, your statement bears no correlation with anything I just posted. I said that you cannot live off of welfare because of extreme limits placed on it, and then you make the statement that it causes people to never work once in their life without providing any sort of evidence or any ideas/ logical assumptions to back your statement up. I'm looking for an argument man, not a wall to beet my head against until I have a concussion!
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 18, 2012 11:32 PM |
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Gnomes, Europe works differently from US.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 18, 2012 11:35 PM |
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@Noct
You throw everything in same panel, without distinction.
We can not avoid taxes, so it is not about paying less/being richer, but choose what for you work half your day. For example, when scolarships and culture budget are cut 20% every year, while welfare needs 20% increase, I have the right to worry about, because it is my branch
-and yes, I am taxed 50% of my revenues-.
And to answer your first tirade about France being racist, it is common sense that one will immigrate in the best country for him, not in the worse. The one where he will get help and assistance, which is quite opposite to racism. So, following your tirade, the 500 000 immigrants entering each year in France choose by masochism the most racist country? Think a bit before writing enormities.
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Era II mods and utilities
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 18, 2012 11:39 PM |
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We "just" need machines which can take over all necessary labour (including self maintance). Then we can stimulate an artificial economy and everyone can be as lazy or productive as they like without destroying the fabric of a well functioning society.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted April 18, 2012 11:40 PM |
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Quote:
Gnomes, Europe works differently from US.
But the vast majority of taxes still go to... wait for it... the government's income tax (followed closely by housing and insurance and (in europe which is different as you pointed out Forfy) public education)! Welfare is not the highest cost of taxes in any country, it isn't even in the top 5 for the vast majority of nations. So saying that 50% of your income goes to welfare is... wrong! No matter where you live.
In the US, taxes are about 32% for the average citizen, and that is mostly because public education funding is much, much lower. That is actually the single greatest difference between the US and European countries, and I took that into account. Everything else is just little shifts up and down (1-2% difference).
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Nocturnal
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 18, 2012 11:41 PM |
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Quote:
You throw everything in same panel, without distinction.
We can not avoid taxes, so it is not about paying less/being richer, but choose what you work half your day. For example, when scolarships and culture budget are cut 20% every year, while welfare needs 20% increase, I have the right to worry about, because it is my branch
-and yes, I am taxed 50% of my revenues-.
And to answer your first tirade about France being racist, it is common sense that one will immigrate in the best country for him, not in the worse. The one where he will get help and assistance, which is opposite to racism. So, following your tirade, the 500 000 immigrants entering each year in France choose by masochism the most racist country? Think a bit before writing enormities.
Since 2 years, I'm loving how you only reply to only single points made by others' post, because that point is the only one you can reply and you behave as if the many other rational oppositions are not there only because you don't have anything to say to them.
But this time you have escaped the whole post and returned to the first one quite desperately.
And I'm refusing to answer. Cause there must be a listener that deserves that. Cause I'm afraid you will return to previous threads, not posts, at this rate.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 18, 2012 11:42 PM |
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No. You did it again. Argh I don't understand anything, why can't we just talk about Poland in stead? It was so much easier when we were just talking about Poland and laughing at Doom thinking an internet poll was the end of the world. Now it's Doom secretly laughing at all of us. World isn't fair, just not fair.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted April 18, 2012 11:51 PM |
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Forfy doesn't like being loughed at?  The world's truly gone mad then.
Quote:
We "just" need machines which can take over all necessary labour (including self maintance). Then we can stimulate an artificial economy and everyone can be as lazy or productive as they like without destroying the fabric of a well functioning society.
Maybe it's just me, but it almost sounds like that you believe this to be a good thing  .
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 18, 2012 11:59 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 23:59, 18 Apr 2012.
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I've been thinking a lot what is going to happen if robots would take all jobs.
What would everybody else do?
Sit at home, eat kebab and play World of Warcraft XII-2? (it's the new Final Fantasy!)
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 19, 2012 12:03 AM |
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Quote:
Maybe it's just me, but it almost sounds like that you believe this to be a good thing .
I do think a functioning world of economic indepdency for everyone is a good thing.
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