|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
posted May 07, 2012 12:19 AM |
|
|
so a right wing extremist party got like 8% in Greece
explain yourself elvin >.>
|
|
fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 12:21 AM |
|
|
|
yeah, they got 19% here..
|
|
Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 12:27 AM |
|
Edited by Seraphim at 00:29, 07 May 2012.
|
Just wait a bit longer.
Its a good start for WW3...
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 12:33 AM |
|
|
I really doubt there will be a true WW3 because of globalization.
also Hollande won in France
which pretty much means that Front National will get +30% in the next election ^^
|
|
Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 01:33 AM |
|
|
pfft Hitler started with a party of 5, I wouldn't put so much faith numbers. It's all a beautiful sequence, (architected of course by foolish man, but still marvelous and like anything made by man, temporary  ) you just watch and see what happens  .
____________
"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
|
|
Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 07:31 AM |
|
|
I wouldn't be too worried about these "extreme right" parties.
The worst they will do is pass some anti-immigration laws.
They don't have those strongmen with enough spine to send the world plunging into another war.
____________
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 07:41 AM |
|
|
While with socialists immigrants clearly show who's the boss.
|
|
Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 11:05 AM |
|
|
Dear Salamandre,
Do you have an aversion to all things positivity? In every single post you make outside of the Library/WoG you are acting like a 65 year old sour curmudgeon, being sour, dreary and focusing on the negative.
It is not cute, it is not fun, it serves no real purpose whatsoever except to be the ultimate buzzkill.
In other words, I'd kindly advise you to stop, and be a beacon of negativity in every off-gale forum.
Signed,
Heroes Community.
On topic: (sorta)
RIP Sarkopoleon 
I am not so much disgusted by the reaction of the immigrants (in fact, I really don't care at all), but I kinda hate how Di Rupo was celebrating on the balcony amongst his socialist brethren. Way to make it clear we're a vassal state of France, Elio. Well done indeed ::ireroll::
____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!
|
|
Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 11:45 AM |
|
|
Dear Lexan,
Arguing over internet forums, mostly inhabited by youngsters as you, is not my style. However, to get away with this thread-which will anyway end in pure dust as everything you guys argue about-, here are my thoughts on the topic:
Everybody flaps their hands in horror at the Far Right gaining in popularity. Why is anybody surprised? In times of economic turmoil and unemployment-think Germany in the 30s-people look to a political agenda that addresses their concerns. The Far Right are singing from the same song music score as many French people.
It is sad when ANYONE who resists open door immigration to the flotsam and jetsam of the Planet and the dilution and destruction of the European peoples are considered Far Right BUT if they are, please put me firmly in that category. Although I never asked for french citizenship, thus I am not allowed to vote. And even less now, when I am thinking where to move again.
The majority of the population of France (and the UK) want to keep their national identities and character. The French are often criticized for being too nationalistic and aloof. The results from the 1st round of the presidential elections shows there are millions of people opposed to mass immigration, that warning is suddenly getting politicians to sit up and take notice. Across Europe countries are growing ever more disenchanted at being forced to accept multiculturalism and the returns from the French election underlines this fact. The voices of France must be heard and lessons learned, to remain complaisant would be folly. Whether or not it was a wise move to unseat the current President is hard to tell, he did have the experience and clearly learned lessons over the past weeks.
More and more countries are getting sick to death of multi culti being rammed down the throats and having their governments calling them racist for not being happy at seeing their way of life being changed...having pakistani, algerian and other africans flags on the top of Bastille the day of the election shocked the entire french people, not only Far Right ones.
Now I am over with and not interested to convince anyone here, arguing about such sensible subjects leads nowhere but in personal attacks, as you started. Don't muzzle too hard peoples voices if you hate Breivik type individuals, because that's where it leads.
Quote:
I'd kindly advise you to stop
Signed,
Heroes Community.
So now you feel like representing the voice of HC? Beside spamming and hard trying to look intelligent, what are your achievements here, may I ask?
|
|
GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 12:57 PM |
|
|
If you ask me, "there are no bad dogs, only bad owners" could be replaced by "there are no bad immigrants, only bad governments". Obviously, there are bad immigrants just like there are bad dogs but I believe that shutting out immigrants is the wrong way to handle mass immigration. I am confident that if you put together a group of experts with the support of people with actual power and influence in society you could create a good working system for incorporating immigrants into their new home.
What I do not believe is that immigrants flood us because their own countries are already full, or that they plan to convert us to their culture or religion. If they were satisfied with their former countries they would not come to us in the first place. If we just give them a warm or atleast a reasonable welcome I am sure they would come to see things our way and change for the better. And with our new friends connection we could slowly at a greater scale effect influence other people.
Isolation and intolerance will have the same results as incest... Retarded children. (you can quote me)
|
|
Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 02:23 PM |
|
Edited by Lexxan at 15:27, 07 May 2012.
|
Quote:
Arguing over internet forums, mostly inhabited by youngsters as you, is not my style. However, to get away with this thread-which will anyway end in pure dust as everything you guys argue about-, here are my thoughts on the topic:
Well, I guess I could state my piece without going to personal attacks.
Well since, you have elected to state your piece, I'll gladly join in as well, without pointing fingers or being asinine to any HC'er, particularly you.
Quote:
Everybody flaps their hands in horror at the Far Right gaining in popularity. Why is anybody surprised? In times of economic turmoil and unemployment-think Germany in the 30s-people look to a political agenda that addresses their concerns. The Far Right are singing from the same song music score as many French people.
What is there to be expected about the fear towards all things Far-Right? People haven't forgotten Nazi Germany, as extreme of a comparison it is. I can understand people getting paranoid about their own financial and sociological position as the crisis goes on, but to describe it as "turmoil" is kind of blowing it out of proportion. Then again, I do not live in France, so I wouldn't know the French situation as well as you do.
In ANY case, voting Far Right isn't a solution, as is voting for ANY extreme political ideology. (I'm here refering to GREECE electing a Far-Left, anti-European party as their second largest, which is probably going to harm them more than help them. Especially after ALL what Europe did for them, risking their OWN credibility to safe them from bankruptcy. Tssss)
I wouldn't call myself an expert on communication or politics, but I'd crudely state the most audiences are actually quite dumb. This is not meant as an insult, it is meant more as an observation as crude as it may be. The truth is, audiences, be it a voting audience for a presidential election OR any other vote (like for instance Referenda, Parliament or even light-hearted stuff like Eurovision or American Idol), usually don't take a lot of time to think about what they are voting for. They are superficial in their decision. Hence why extreme parties (FarLeft AND FarRight) do so well in times of crisis and trouble. They usually have Extreme PoVs and have no filter on where they stand within the political spectrum, which appeals to any audience desperate for either change or steadiness.
This of course also is the main reason why they are unlikely to be benign in a governmental position. Their extreme attitude alienates a LOT of other politicians and moreover, they one-dimensionally advocate one pathway, usually ignoring all possible obstacles and side-effects to the solution they are proposing. Their lack of a filter also translates in the imaginary line between what is ok and what is not becoming blurred. Which is why most extreme forms of Government slowly degrade into hellish dictatorships as time progresses, without the crowd realizing it before it is too late.
Quote:
It is sad when ANYONE who resists open door immigration to the flotsam and jetsam of the Planet and the dilution and destruction of the European peoples are considered Far Right BUT if they are, please put me firmly in that category
I -more or less- agree. I am a centrist, politically, but I do think that open immigration should be restricted. With regards to my own country, Belgian citizenship is handed out too haphazzardly. It is one of the biggest issues over here, as the new secretary of Immigration is fighting a huge uphill battle to compensate the disasters left behind by her inept predecessor.
For example, CONVICTED criminals are being handed passports, while fully integrated students, who study, contribute to society and are fluent in BOTH languages are mercilessly sent back to their home country. It's a mess.
Imo immigrants should be screened thoroughly before being granted citizenship of whatever coutnry they are applying for. They should also prove that they want to be part of the country by assimilating and adopting the culture of their old country (without renouncing their heritage, of course) BEFORE being given citizenship.
It may seem severe, but it's really nothing but logical. The vast majority of immigrants I know are hard-working, law-abiding citizens. (which contrasts sharply with the views of the average Polish Citizen, whom I can imagine never have even seen an immigrant before) Most people are decent, which is also why xenophobia and prejudice is (like any extreme emotion imho) a sign of stupidity.
Quote:
The majority of the population of France (and the UK) want to keep their national identities and character. The French are often criticized for being too nationalistic and aloof. The results from the 1st round of the presidential elections shows there are millions of people opposed to mass immigration, that warning is suddenly getting politicians to sit up and take notice. Across Europe countries are growing ever more disenchanted at being forced to accept multiculturalism and the returns from the French election underlines this fact. The voices of France must be heard and lessons learned, to remain complaisant would be folly. Whether or not it was a wise move to unseat the current President is hard to tell, he did have the experience and clearly learned lessons over the past weeks.
Multiculturalism is an thing I find VERY stupid. It's more of a Utopian idea than anything else. Multiculturalism will only lead to cultures being destroyed or weakened or absorbed into another one. This makes the term "multiculturalism" so incorrect, because multiculturalism usually is a, incoherent mish-mash of cultures, rather than seemless fusion of two or multiple ones with no values being lost.
In terms of immigration, it is clear people want to keep their own culture. This counts for both immigrant AND local. Imo it should be the person's own choice which culture they adhere to in the private life. I see no idea to storm inside the home of my proverbial Moroccan neighbour and force him to nail a cross to his wall because Belgium is a predominantly Christian nation.
IN PUBLIC LIFE HOWEVER... it's a different story. No matter who you are or where you are from, you should adopt the culture of the country you are applying for citizenship. Nationality is more than just a stamp on a slab of paper. It's an identity, that you should live and breathe. Many people take it for granted, which I find wrong and disrespectful.
Example: If an Algerian worker wants to apply for French Citizenship, he should accept the French Culture as a surrogate to his native Algerian one. He becomes both French and Algerian, combining both cultures in his life. It's not impossible to do. In fact, the vast majority of immigrants outside of France adapt themselves perfectly without renouncing their native culture.
Once you get your Citizenship, you are officially part of a nation (as per YOUR OWN decision), ergo you are assumed to be a part of it. I have trouble understanding why this is so hard to get for some people, who just refuse to be part of their country, breaking laws left and right, figuratively peeing on their (surrogate) nation's flag.
To me, it is obvious one is expected to behave to their countries norm in public, AND if an issue collied between cultures, the one of the country you're currently residing in, should take priority. It's no more than decent. So basically, I agree with Salamandre here, if less extremely of course.
Quote:
More and more countries are getting sick to death of multi culti being rammed down the throats and having their governments calling them racist for not being happy at seeing their way of life being changed...having pakistani, algerian and other africans flags on the top of Bastille the day of the election shocked the entire french people, not only Far Right ones.
Another paragraph I completely agree with. These people have AGREED to become French Citizens, but their behaviour, whilst still within the law, is unfitting for a French Citizen. So I do understand why people would be outraged. As I said before, Multiculturalism is a very dumb, short-sighted idea, one which UNDERMINES Society. When Merkel said the mulicultural society was a failure, she was 100% right.
However, fear, hate, contempt, panic, outrage, worry... they are all emotions which drive crowds into the arms of Far Right Parties like herd of lemmings. Again, for the reasons I stated above, I find this downright idiotic. The emotions are mentionned are not ones associated with cerebrality, reason and common sense. The decision made by these kind of people are of emotional nature, and of an incorrent one too. Fear and Dislike never should reign a person when making weighy decisions. It is nefarious for everyone involved, will do more harm than it'll help them. Like I said earlier, the election of the Nazis in Germany is an examples of how thing can go horribly wrong if people don't pay attention to whom they're voting for and what is motivating them. A much less extreme example would be Far Left winning in Greece, which probably going to harm the country even MORE, as they'll resist the financial restrictions imposed to them by Europe.
Things aren't as black and white as they seem. Sure, sometimes immigrants do misbehave. But it unwise, in fact it is VERY foolish, to let extreme emotions like paranoia, fear and hate affect your decision. Which seems to be happening in Poland AND in France AND all over the globe basically (Libya, Greece, Egypt, etc)
I'm not going to say I support either side, I don't. I am naive, and I don't know much. But I do know one thing. Taking interest into knowing one another and RESPECTING the other are the only solutions that will have a positive, lasting effect. It may seem little, but it isn't. A lot people need to learn, still and we can only hope it'll improve with time.
And now to end this huge manifesto I tihnk I'll just add a random word at the end to make this discussion a bit more light-hearted since this is quite heavy matter.
KUMQUAT.
____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!
|
|
Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 03:29 PM |
|
Edited by Corribus at 15:29, 07 May 2012.
|
Quote:
Dear Salamandre,
Do you have an aversion to all things positivity? In every single post you make outside of the Library/WoG you are acting like a 65 year old sour curmudgeon, being sour, dreary and focusing on the negative.
It is not cute, it is not fun, it serves no real purpose whatsoever except to be the ultimate buzzkill.
In other words, I'd kindly advise you to stop, and be a beacon of negativity in every off-gale forum.
Signed,
Heroes Community.
@ Lexxan:
This post was completely unnecessary provocation. For one thing, you do not speak for all of HC. For another, posts which serve no other purpose than to criticize a single member's posting style are not allowed here. Do it again in my forum and you'll get 24 hours off to think about how to post responsibly. As a reminder, if you have a problem with another HC member, contact the ModSquad and we will decide what to do about it, if anything.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
|
|
Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 03:43 PM |
|
|
Fair enough, Cor, I'll leave it at that. From now one, I'll only comment on On-Topic stuff (like my previous post)
____________
Coincidence? I think not!!!!
|
|
fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 04:28 PM |
|
|
|
so, what did Hollande promised that makes them so happy?
|
|
xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 05:55 PM |
|
|
Hollande is a socialist, right?
Socialists tend to promise LOTS of things such as more residences, better infratructure, better equality, more social wellfare et cetera. But in my experience, they rarely know how to finance all these things. Unless, of course, they want to raise every single possible tax.
Also I find it funny that Lexxan would be labeled as a right-wing extremist in my country for wanting immigrants to assimilate.
(Personally, I believe more in integration than assimiliation)
|
|
Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 06:12 PM |
|
|
|
Oh well, I actually MEANT Integration. Idk why I used the word assimilation, I probably couldn't think of the word I suppose.
|
|
Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 06:26 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Oh well, I actually MEANT Integration. Idk why I used the word assimilation, I probably couldn't think of the word I suppose.
Depends on the context.
There is assimilation where one accepts their current country of residence's culture.
Then there is the Borg type assimilation...
____________
|
|
OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 06:28 PM |
|
|
|
In any case, why'd you wanna find the area beneath people anyway? Are you sure you don't want to find the tangent to the surface curve of a person in stead? In that case, you want differentiation. I know, it's easy to mix those up as well.
|
|
fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted May 07, 2012 07:19 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Hollande is a socialist, right?
Socialists tend to promise LOTS of things such as more residences, better infratructure, better equality, more social wellfare et cetera. But in my experience, they rarely know how to finance all these things. Unless, of course, they want to raise every single possible tax.
Also I find it funny that Lexxan would be labeled as a right-wing extremist in my country for wanting immigrants to assimilate.
(Personally, I believe more in integration than assimiliation)
yeah. interestingly, some candidates promised much more than Hollande, but did pathetic scores (well, except Melenchon) so if people fall for promises, how come they massively voted for someone who promised less than others? and actually, some other candidates knew how to finance it all. for example, by not paying for it in the 1st place 
well, there was also a massive vote for Sarkozy, who promised that we would all suffer, especially those who have to work.
|
|
Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
|
|
posted May 08, 2012 01:03 AM |
|
Edited by Seraphim at 01:23, 08 May 2012.
|
Quote:
For example, CONVICTED criminals are being handed passports, while fully integrated students, who study, contribute to society and are fluent in BOTH languages are mercilessly sent back to their home country. It's a mess.
This is something pleasant to hear from somebody in euorpe.
European countries handle and did handle immigration in a very bad manner.
When you accept people from warzones or workers from other countries,dont expect them to be culturally on the same level as you.Most will be people who have never faced the world that is euorpe.
On the other hand, how european people react is not of merits either.
Ridicule,insults, hatespeech and what not. You really think that immigrants will respect Europe,while Europeans say every crap that comes into their mind. Most europeans will distance, ridicule and even insult immigrants.
European people and politics have created a certain "Dissonance".
On the subject of multiculturalism. Was it not meant to create a single culture with many backgrounds? Obviously,if multiculturalism failed in europe then so did the whole EU with each an every country.
United in diversity... yeah.
Studying for 6 years in a foreign coutntry when you know the culuture,the language and whatnot and in the end you have to say goodbye. Apparently,academic immigrants are seen with the same light.
People look at immigrants at the emotional and not in the monetary part.
Immigrants exist in European countries because they are explotable. Uneducated,unqualified. They are cheap.
On the other hand,somebody with a degree is unattractive. That is how I see it anyway. Please correct me if I am wrong as I would love to see what you have to say.
Again,choosing the far right will hurt europe more than it will benefit them. We know how this ended last time.
Just to remind you,last time more than only the "Jews" were "Taken care of",the problem immigrants of that era.
History repeats it self.
Just wait and see...
Quote:
If they were satisfied with their former countries they would not come to us in the first place.
Warning: a list of "Would you live" type questions follows.
Think in this way.
Would you like to live in a country in which you
cant have a real qualification.You are stuck with inept education system and nobody accepts your diploma in other countries.
This happens even with European diplomas but with less severity.
Would you like to live in a country in which there are no jobs for your qualification or there are NO jobs at all.
All positons are held by corrupts. Cronyism and nepotism being the dominating phenomena.
Would you like to live in a country where you have to work 3-4 jobs to make ends meet,that is if you are lucky to find these jobs? Personal life? Nada.
Would you like to live in a coutnry where bribery is normal?
Of course, you will have to figure out how to get that money. Kidney selling is a good start.
Would you like to live in a coutnry where there is no police, no security?
Would you like to live in a coutnry where there is no water and electricity?
Suicide is preferable in these countries...
This is why i prefer that contraceptives should be free.
|
| |
|
|
This thread is pages long: 
