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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted March 26, 2009 11:07 AM |
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Simultaneous turns break usually when one player breaks the garrison separating lands, and he gets extra movement.
Maybe it happened a little later, I don't know what exactly happened there, but the fact that he had all his troops gathered on his hero tell me that he was planning to attack you soon, as he could creep very well without some of those stacks 
Also, his much better stats make me think that he would win the battle full battle anyway (probably you don't have Enlightment? ), Mass Haste + Mass Endurance + Channeled regeneration on Dragons, Treants and Unicorns and big defense would probably make it impossible for the dwarfs to deal enough damage to stop the Regeneration show, unless you have Mass Cleansing which you probably don't since you have Storm Wind and Wrath
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted March 26, 2009 01:05 PM |
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Quote:
Maybe it happened a little later, I don't know what exactly happened there, but the fact that he had all his troops gathered on his hero tell me that he was planning to attack you soon, as he could creep very well without some of those stacks
I did plan the attack, I was considering few possible outcomes of it:
- Sim turn ends to Strider's favour. Then he goes home and I lost one day rush but I might take his second mega and some attack boosters.
- Sim turn ends to my favour. If I can reach Helmar, perfect. If not, its enough to stop Helmar reach one way monolith back to town, because no town portal for him. This would have been an interesting situation too, because then Helmar needs to attack me and surrender or run backwards.
I think each scenario is advantageous for me.
Now the best one happened.
But, its not because of my luck, I am convinced that Strider made a calculation failure on my movement.
That turn - under sim turn - began with a garrison fight, when his secondary managed to free some arties. After that battle I rushed to thane&air elemental blockers and foughted with them. Meanwhile he was able to move both with main and secondary. At this special moment sim turn ended. So if he really wanted to, he could run away I think. He also asked me in the game: How many movement points left for Ylthin?
Just maybe too greedy to leave 2 pile of gold to me? Or witch hut was soo invitating? I guess we will never know
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted March 26, 2009 04:11 PM |
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So what happens next?
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted March 26, 2009 06:35 PM |
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Quote:
So what happens next?
Strider told me last Saturday that he has something very urgent work to do, so we have not played in the last days. In fact I did not mind it at all, cuz last Wednesday my third son has arrived, so my time is very limited.
Last info from Strider was that maybe he can launch heroes at this Sunday. So hopefully we will go on then.
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted March 30, 2009 07:31 PM |
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Quote:
But, its not because of my luck, I am convinced that Strider made a calculation failure on my movement.
It was like this: i moved Havez and saw you battling Storm lord block. I thought for a minute what to do with main. And decided to go home through portal as it really takes 2 seconds on maximum speed. And sims broke exactly at middle of my movement right in front of you. Second ago i would still be standing and second ahead i would be gone. Yeah, you are not lucky, you caught me with your cunning strategy 
Tower, level difference is due to balrog site. It gives 5 levels (ofc, they need to be killed first). My total accessible army is bigger but it might not play any difference if Helmar is not in tavern hehe
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted March 30, 2009 09:31 PM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 21:54, 30 Mar 2009.
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Well... Time for Jinxer to open mouth and insert foot... Here is my 2 cents on that situtaion.....
Heroes is a Turn Based Game!! Its not a real time game... And When Sim turn breaks is obviously the most BUGGED part of game. So IMO.. if such a Bad timing sim turn breaks like that... should never beable to take advantage of such a terrible game design flaw... Today in game with willgefors.. same thing happened... I was moving my hero and ordered him to walk and get onto boat.. the moment he gets on boat... the Sim turn screen shows up... Will had just imerged from the fog and was in my area. I knew he was coming.. but had no clue he was anywhere NEAR that close... Obviously I would not have gotten on boat with only half my army.. if I had known that sim turn would break like that... Will graciously granted reload. ( Ofcourse he knew he was gonna win easily anyways) but thats besides the point. I gained ALOT of respect for Willgefors today since he didnt take advantage of that nasty game design flaw.. remember.. heroes is Turn Based by nature... a game design flaw that allows for a Real Time sneak attack in a Turn based game is a bug and should not be taken advantage of... Thats just plain silly....
I am sure noone else will agree with me.. they never do.. but still wanted to put my 2 cents in 
*** On a side note.... Just wanted to mention that Willgefors is as good as I heard he was.. as all great players.. he has mastered the ability to make all the artifacts on his side and utopia be Great and Perfect and at same time make all my artifacts on my side and Utopia worst possible.. I only ever see such lopsided artifacts when playing the great players.. so obviously they have secret powers I have yet to learn. Good Game Will.
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sq79
Famous Hero
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posted March 30, 2009 10:18 PM |
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There's something strange about the sim turns in genesis maybe. I was playing kis few months back there, and I was player 2, him player 1, but when sim turns broke, it was quite unusual as player 2 did not manage to get his turn when player 1 ended. I wasn't talking about a free turn there, but more like a end of a turn without any movement points, because i was intending to town portal or move backwards. This thing happened in the phoenix garrison, maybe you wanna take a look ?
The intention of granted addition movement points for player 2 was like to solve the problem of the "red" rush, example week 4 day 1, player 1 chains all troops from town to fight player 2 without the option for player 2 to buy troops.
Anyway I agree with jinxer about this sim turns break thing, it is better to highlight to opponent both sides, that either one reserves the right to be given the chance to move away or town portal home should they decide not to fight that battle on the turn triggered by sim turns that they can't do anything to move away.
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted March 30, 2009 11:21 PM |
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Quote:
Anyway I agree with jinxer --- sq79
OMG... someone agreed with me... WoOt!!!
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted March 31, 2009 09:41 AM |
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I agree with you also Jinxer, but I think there should be a pre-game agreement between players about this loading if simultaneous turns break in a bad moment.
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Mytical
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Chaos seeking Harmony
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posted March 31, 2009 10:18 AM |
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So um..what is the score?
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Message received.
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted March 31, 2009 04:22 PM |
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Edited by Kispagat at 16:25, 31 Mar 2009.
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Quote:
I agree with you also Jinxer, but I think there should be a pre-game agreement between players about this loading if simultaneous turns break in a bad moment.
In general I am not against pre-game agreements. Even tough its very complicated to regulate sim turn effect.
And also, I think I could support a theory which states the h5 is not a life insurance, random events should happen.
I think twilight is a little bit different from any other maps, because my sneak attack was not sneak in a sense that Strider could have known/seen that I was coming.
2:1 to Strider.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted March 31, 2009 05:08 PM |
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Come on, you can't agree on sim turns and both opponents to be happy. Suppose sim breaks and you still had half movement or 30% remaining, would you have to sacrifice those or play approximately as much as you would without the extra movement? And who is to say how much you initially had? It's a pointless endeavour, just play the game.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted March 31, 2009 09:29 PM |
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Yeah, true ... very hard to make a rule about simultaneous ... probably Elvin's idea is the best thing to do, sometimes you might lose, sometimes you might win, but on the long run it won't alter your results
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted March 31, 2009 10:35 PM |
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Edited by Jinxer at 22:41, 31 Mar 2009.
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Well.... I think the point is... the sim turn is supposed to break BEFORE the players even have the chance to interact... this is where the BUG part comes in... AND on top of the... the sim turn should Break at the END of a turn. Not in the middle.
Again.. This is a turn based game.. the game is designed so each player has equal turns to plan and decide there moves without fear of running to real time opponent. So for some random occurance to allow a real time encounter to pop up outta no where... is not fair and goes agasint the nature of the game. Keep that in mind. Clicking the WIN button on TOH page should NOT be the ONLY thing that matters. How you play the game and get the win should matter. Win with Honor and EARN it.. where is the Pride in clicking win because of a technicallity.. and bug in the game.
BTW... I am not attacking your integrity Kisp... just posting my opinion in general on the situation...
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infinitus
Supreme Hero
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posted April 01, 2009 07:50 AM |
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By going center area of map player assume risk to be attacked by opponent in any moment... It's like on rush map - player must take skills like battle vs opponent will happen next turn ... Good thing game have sim turns ... If someone don't like them, it's always a option to turn them off ... In serious tournament is match easier to turn them off compared to make rules ...
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Nothing's impossible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=loCSLJ6IodY
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted April 01, 2009 08:50 AM |
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I understand Jinxer but any rules governing "fairness" of sim turn break are doomed due to reasons already described by Elvin. Also, most of modern maps with garrisons or uber blocks allow for the stupid situation where there are several tiles left between players at the climax. But that is the cost for playing interesting and fascinating maps
I was referring to something else - this very particular situation of current game that any person with wisdom of humbleness would acknowledge as extreme gift of luck hehe However, seems that arrogance of this lucky sucker is beyond such gratitude emotions Statement like below (and they are piling up) boils my blood:
Quote:
But, its not because of my luck, I am convinced that Strider made a calculation failure on my movement.
So don't confuse my annoyance with general issue of sim turn break. If Kis must score victories then i would like to play games after which i could say "yeah, you played awesome, gg". Well, game accidents happen too but, at least, the winner of lucky lottery should learn to keep his trap shut, right?
Back to the game... we continued yesterday and will proceed tonight as well.
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Kispagat
Famous Hero
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posted April 01, 2009 10:27 AM |
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Quote:
I was referring to something else - this very particular situation of current game that any person with wisdom of humbleness would acknowledge as extreme gift of luck hehe However, seems that arrogance of this lucky sucker is beyond such gratitude emotions Statement like below (and they are piling up) boils my blood:
Quote:
But, its not because of my luck, I am convinced that Strider made a calculation failure on my movement.
So don't confuse my annoyance with general issue of sim turn break. If Kis must score victories then i would like to play games after which i could say "yeah, you played awesome, gg". Well, game accidents happen too but, at least, the winner of lucky lottery should learn to keep his trap shut, right?
Back to the game... we continued yesterday and will proceed tonight as well.
I hope when you have spent 80 years grumbling over the fact that how could a lucky sucker beat you even once in Ceasars in a bright afternoon some toughts shines the last peices of ur remaining brain:
Maybe that lucky sucker was not so bad? Maybe I was in a bad shape? Maybe the stars did not allow me another 3-0 win? Maybe I played poorly and overconfidently?
And you will realize that you were so crazy to spend so much energy trying to understand what your logical brain cant. There are some doors which stay closed whatever you do. And you will pass away in your last and only happy moment of your life.
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jorko80
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 01, 2009 10:46 AM |
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Really liked the part of pissing Strider
Now on the sim brake :
Completely agree with Jinxer here. When sim turns end,the 1st player should not be able to reach the second with his remaining movement points and also the 2nd should not be able to reach the 1st with his full movement points when he receives the turn. So it is not fair using the stupid bug and I think that if one of the players doesn't want to fight then he must be allowed to leave the area or reload the game from the beggining of the turn.
I suppose that in the game between Strider and Kispagat there was no comment on the sim brake ,so everything goes
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted April 01, 2009 12:53 PM |
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hehe What are you talking about, Kis? I have always claimed that you are one of the best here, possess creativity, skill etc... But what you don't possess is the wisdom to not claim credit of miraculous coincidences to your cunning strategic planning, and, certainly not the wisdom of tact
About sims... yeah, it is painful but, really, the only solution would be playing without sim turns as Infi wrote. And that is unacceptable. How on the earth would you deal with all the side issues of movement and so on?
Ofc, in game vs Kis reload would be impossible. How would that ever be viable option to this marvelous strategist if he even didn't grant "automatic" load to elit when at the start of final battle he accidentally started autocombat? Ah, but i see now! That all was part of his creative strategy to get elit chatting and press "v" so he can win "as planned".
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted April 01, 2009 02:08 PM |
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It's really interesting how emotions are spreading in this fight for Caesar, from lucky sucker to one of the best , perhaps this matchup should've been the final.
In the meantime, the site seems to be hacked by the Red Army ... and everyone wants to know only one thing : did Strider get Helmar back, or not ?
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