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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted May 13, 2009 07:05 PM |
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Edited by Azagal at 19:05, 13 May 2009.
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Yeah... it really makes one wonder. It's so sad that the great games the two had aren't what this thread is actually about anymore. I mean the games were really good oO. Now we just have a lot of pointing fingers .
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted May 13, 2009 07:09 PM |
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Quote:
Its easy to understand to anyone who shows some respect to his/her opponent and the community, that I needed to make a hard decision whether I should accuse the ceasar finalist and grandmaster of toh with cheating. Another drama surely does not help the community.
lol, very cheesy... are you trying to convince us that you decided to give away victory even if opponent cheated?? I think you are just on witch hunt frenzy now since i hurt your pride about mistakes 
Quote:
- You had 4 tries with long turns
- 1st you had a dc/froze
- 2nd I had a game froze
- 3rd you had a dc/froze
- you made a save which called wolves 2
- you edited the name of the save
- there is no wolves 1, so even you are so precise in general you began saving with "2"
- you were in panic and were scared when we discussed this issue after ur second dc
- battle is perfect and very close to suicide
1st turn with 38 min took me to the first moves in the battle. (cannot make replay with frozen game which after short while also gave me blue screen).
2nd turn with 15 min i even didn't enter the battle when you had d/c.
3rd turn with 52 min i was past titans and vampires with 99% turn bar full. Hence i have replay before game froze.
So far very simple. I hope you follow. As i have replay from 3rd attempt, 2nd was too short then only question remains about the first. So why again are you speculating about 4 long turns??? So, you are pushing only the point that i don't have replay from 1st but it is technically impossible with frozen game.
About numbering of saves. Do you really think that smart Strider is suicidal and throws away your own proposed idea that it was 2nd time of breaking titans in series thus perfectly explaining logic of numbering??? Why on the earth i would put myself on the line of fire with telling the truth when lies would be so convenient??? Enlighten us, detective!
Again about renaming. I have replay also from next breaking with the ingame name "wolves3". But all my replays that i give away have different naming system (check the forum). So what you push here is that i "forgot" that name is different and that is proof that i did smth. But what?! Anyway, i would really like to know your idea what would be in the replay "wolves1" if i was able to create it? Would there be a replay of how i presumably suicide and what would be my purpose of creating it then?  Your comments, detective?
Again about the battle. Did anyone read my post that this strategy works somewhat better if titans shoot arcanes once? I bet there are many that understand why except Kis. Tower is completely right that sprites have low % to be ahead of titans but it is irrelevant. In test fight with Gilraen they also moved after titans and served the main purpose of sparing me from 2 next shots. 3rd shot is blocked by single druid. By then all is in chocolate. I can pour even more oil in the fire - in the test i was able to win flawlessly also with ponies being killed at one point. Though that is very risky...
Quote:
If we forget the dc issues for a moment, killing titans and wolves and rush to the center too early is the way of loosing the fight.
It seems i will have to spell it out as you are too blinded in righteousness (or maybe it supports my evaluation of your strategic depth). The ABSOLUTE must-have ingredient for sylvan's victory vs. dungeon is.. is... is having shackles and big army! Also, it was critical to take sunken (arts, money) and register death mega dwelling in the same week. So i was aiming at 3 birds with one shot. And i got what i wanted - shackles, arts, much more meat and money to buy it out.
Now, try to follow me. Avoiding staff, getting megadwellings, ini arts - they all fell far behind shackles in strategic significance to countering your HNR. I had only 2 ways - either through tunnels or titans. I knew you would run to center asap and try to steal my own shackles and tunnel route is longer for several days and almost certainly i would have to skip sunken.
As for securing boots then it was impossible to calculate beforehand if i'll be the first. And when the moment come i submerged in long contemplation because i was 1 day behind if i want to clear balrogs also. Partly i was lucky that you failed with tent but i was prepared to better let it be week 6 (not 5) final vs Dwarven set than avoid shackles and few times larger army.
Anyway, are you seriously trying to prove that i looked at save based on your obviously different strategic understanding? You have your view and i have mine. People are different.
And the argument you keep ignoring but cannot falter - why would i spend 2 days of my life thinking and discussing (msn logs, ask Zilo) about it if i knew the save?? Your explanation, detective?
And finally, consider this! I chose to reveal full truth about awkward replay naming, scanner, etc. Can anyone tell me why would i risk all if i could simply go along with Kis numbering explanation and keep silent about scanner?
I can answer it. Truth is often robust with peculiar angles and i chose to follow principle of honesty and to be completely open with you rather than be "smart". My only hope is that TOHers will believe me because i stand unarmed in front of you with all cards on table.
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted May 13, 2009 07:18 PM |
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Quote:
I wonder why the not-so-trusted ppl at TOH have the worst net connections and the most alt+tabbing action while fighting choke point guards in the map... This must be some weird coincidence I guess..
It is no coincidence. It is regularity. On average, almost every session we had d/c and game freezes and on BOTH sides. Sometimes i also got suspicious as there are lots of hard battles in Twilight and getting d/c while waiting for opponents is bound to generate some doubt.
As for the case in scrutiny, only the 1st d/c is questioned by Kis as there is no replay.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 13, 2009 07:19 PM |
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This is getting tiresome and getting nowhere, let's leave further comments to ves if he has something to say and move on. There were certain suspicions, they were voiced and that's it. Whether they were unfounded or not cannot be proven unless someone is holding back.
I respect how people were civil in the past few days but if the discussion continues it will get out of hand with mathematical accuracy. Further continuation may result in locking this thread so let's keep it clear and stick to facts if this story is to be pushed further.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 13, 2009 07:54 PM |
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Nice goin boys! Good thing that when i was fighting Strider i shackled him to my Ingvar and introduced to my guardpost crew, there was no sneaky retreat from this one LOL! eeh good old times
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perathekojot
Known Hero
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posted May 13, 2009 09:18 PM |
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True champion of honour. What a joke  Maybe Ves should consider changing Tournament name. Any ideas? I will go first: TOS = Tournament of slicks.
Also I have to thank Infi, for his info But maybe he should have kept it a secret, bet most of community would be happier this way. This way those who knew, and were using it, could keep on doing it, and continue being great players, and rest of us could keep enjoying the game. And of course, most of all thanks Strider for keeping it a secret from community for our own good all this time. Our champ
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Clay_Man
Known Hero
TOH gamer
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posted May 13, 2009 09:50 PM |
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Quote:
and rest of us could keep enjoying the game.
Thumbs up for this 
But let's not put the blame on Strider for this. If you weren't a cheater you won't become one just because you know of this program now. It all goes down to one's attitude to others and to the game itself.
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perathekojot
Known Hero
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posted May 13, 2009 09:57 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
and rest of us could keep enjoying the game.
Thumbs up for this
But let's not put the blame on Strider for this. If you weren't a cheater you won't become one just because you know of this program now. It all goes down to one's attitude to others and to the game itself.
You get it all wrong. I wasn't blaming him. I was thanking him. Our champ.
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted May 13, 2009 10:07 PM |
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Quote:
And of course, most of all thanks Strider for keeping it a secret from community for our own good all this time. Our champ
You're welcome We could trust ourselves but not the likes of you - ofc it was better to keep it away from TOH if there is no remedy. But seems that since there are many new players that can read Russian forum and who know about the scanner, the plague is spreading...
Now, let's see if modders can invent an antidote. Go, modders, go
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted May 13, 2009 10:15 PM |
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First) Pera,why don't u shut up.It doesn't suit u to think.yes Strider is a champ,not u baby
After Strider beat me 5 games i thought he was cheating. I just couldn`t except my losses although there were some peculiarities. After time I understood that this things are calculations. If he looked at the save he would know everything and no d/c will occur.
There is no point to blame him for d/c as it appeared on both sides. Sorry Kis to tell that but I think u should accept your loss and not mess up Ves. Although I think he won`t do anything better not bother him  Regarding that scanner if he cheated with it he would pretend he heard about it for the first time. Why don`t u blame Infinitus that he uses it or all Russian players?????? I will tell why. Because now Strider is in the hot oven and everybody envies him because he will get the most desired title in TOH. Caesar of all emperors
Let`s assume he looks at the save. What can happen if he looked at it. He saw in the last garrison that he doesn`t have swift mind, he knew nearly all his artifacts besides those in castle but they can be understood too through calculation. He knows his skills, perks. He doesn`t know only the spells Kis has but Strider knows most of them from garrison battles and assumes he wears book of destr/book of dark. Most prolly the latter. Or play some garrison battle versus the AI  There is no point.
He didn`t have town portal - nearly all my games i rush to the centre without it and then chain back or simply return. About the replay with wolves: Strider knew he had bad arts and wanted to gather arties from sunken at least because he can`t pass through the garrisons in center so early and he risked. He knew if he doesn`t go to center he would lose, why not lose earlier when suiciding to wolves. He won`t waste more time of Kispagat and most importantly his time.
About the empowered spells: he saw in the imp garrison that Kis doesn`t use empowered spells and hoped he is not saving up mana but doesn`t have the perk and hoped he didn`t get it.
This is how it looks from distance. Strider u are very arrogant if u kept your mouth shut during last couple of days maybe nobody will doubt now.
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perathekojot
Known Hero
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posted May 13, 2009 11:25 PM |
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Quote:
Now, let's see if modders can invent an antidote. Go, modders, go
Hehe. Maybe you should post this first time you heard about it. But instead you conveniently decide to "protect" community from itself. As for yourself, I bet you never used it in TOH battles. Especially important ones. Man, you make me laugh. I bet if this was live discussion, you would, eventually become embarrassed of the amount and "quality" of bullsnow you keep spreading, and run for the doors. But, since, is not, you will just keep on inventing new ones. Won't you? Although, I must congratulate you on your enthusiasm. Do you really think,that anyone, with at least decent knowledge of english, and patience to think about what you wrote, still have a slightest doubt about your arguments. C'mon  Get real.
As for puppy. One thing only: yeah, I do think. You should try it. It helps a lot with d/c. Saves other people time and nerves. It may be hard in the beginning, but I bet if you remain persistent eventually it will become easier. Never easy, though. Just easier. In time. After all we all have our limits. Nothing to be ashamed off
And just few wrong things in your "reasoning": I think we all know by now that Strider is well acquainted with Russian community. So pretending not to know about it would be a lame argument even for him. Not for you though. Nice try, but you gotta think harder girl
Also, it's not just now that everybody envies him It happens whenever he had hard or important match, and usually it's some other guy on the other side. Wonder why? Think, puppy, think !!!
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natalka
Supreme Hero
Bad-mannered
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posted May 13, 2009 11:32 PM |
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Edited by natalka at 23:45, 13 May 2009.
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Pera I meant he could just not answer to Infinitus post. Why don`t u think whether Infinitus cheats? It looks that I CAN think but u can`t see my point lol.
If u don`t stop using this idiotic emoticon i will come to Serbia and u know what .. hehe
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perathekojot
Known Hero
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posted May 13, 2009 11:42 PM |
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Spank me to death?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 13, 2009 11:45 PM |
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Now you are getting her naughty 
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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perathekojot
Known Hero
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posted May 13, 2009 11:55 PM |
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Also, Infinitus did directly contradicted his statement about people could only be playing one they trust:
"Trust opponent ??? I say the contrary, if technically is so easy to see the save, player must assume that opponent see the save and build strategy on that fact ... Trust in this condition is like full yourself ...
Also i sure many players on TOH use Hero Scanner to see opponent heroes build etc ..."
So to ignore this, would as sound, as to say: I never used that thingy, what is it all about?
Think, think, think,...
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valkyrica
Supreme Hero
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posted May 14, 2009 12:10 AM |
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So much drama, heroes 4 Caesar went so smooth
P.S.: Let's not involve clans into the discussion, shall we ?
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I'm Guybrush Threepwood, mighty pirate
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Clay_Man
Known Hero
TOH gamer
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posted May 14, 2009 12:31 AM |
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It seems to me that when there's a slight chance of bashing someone, all hell breaks loose in TOH board. I'm not trying to protect Strider here, but alas, another great thread turned into a mindless flame war, unfortunately.
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perathekojot
Known Hero
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posted May 14, 2009 09:14 PM |
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Just tested the scanner, to see for myself. And this thing is broken. You can choose any hero build you wont even before you start, you know all the spells from towns guild, hero stats on certain level, you can see incoming weeks, check your opponent for skill, stats, arties, army, virtually everything. My only try (with Helmar) took 5 levl ups to reach logistic. And that's a 2% skill for dwarves. This must be the worst thing for multyplayer so far. As we know of Will the community be able to resist temptation? How will it affect trust among players? It's so easy to use, and yet so rewarding.
On a last games in Caesar - I really think that in a situation where one player knew about this and the other did not, you can't talk about any kind of regularity or fair play. We will probably never find out if this was used or not, but very chance of it, makes all this pretty ridiculous. If Ves is going to even consider latest event, he should definitely try this for yourself, before anything else. Its like a poker game, where one players had the ability to know what cards are there before they are dealt, and the other is unaware of this. So whether is he gonna use it, is up to him, and nobody ever is gonna know this. This of course if Kis did not know about this, which I think is the case here.
As for future, it would be great if some modding or similar solution could be found. Protecting save from being loaded by just one person would be awesome too. Since I have no knowledge of this sort, I can only plea of those who does. Or someone who can organize this. It's time for someone to jump in and save the day. Or at least organize a rescuing party. Elvin?
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted May 14, 2009 09:23 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 21:23, 14 May 2009.
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That's out of my hands I'm afraid I know next to nothing when it comes to modding or how to even recognize if illegal programs are running. But if someone does find a way I'll be sure to promote it.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Strider_HL
Famous Hero
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posted May 14, 2009 09:34 PM |
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Fiur is already working on blocking this program but for now the solution is still out of reach... Obi van Kanobi, you are our only hope!!!
Fortunately, it is not so bad as pera claims. At least scanner 2 years ago could be used in multiplayer to see only opponent's stuff but not to plan your own. H5 regenerates the pattern of leveluping at each turn (or level-up). But i don't remember about the spells. Test it in multi... i think you tried single.
Ofc, neither me or Zilo have ever used scanner in multiplayer.
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