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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted February 08, 2013 06:44 PM |
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I was always under the impression that Hell was for people that would enjoy it. Adultery murder, theft. God loves all and the idea of punishment seems ludicrous, you simply get what you deserve, everything under the sun is a reward, everything from death, to life.
There's no good and bad, find who you are in this life and enjoy the after-life, simple as, it's a grand voyage of self discovery. And when you are bored, when you tire of playing the same game, tired of licking the honey jar from the outside, then your heart will yearn for home.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted February 10, 2013 11:37 AM |
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Well that's an interesting way of looking at it...
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 10, 2013 01:40 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 14:12, 10 Feb 2013.
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I've long thought that Satan/Lucifer is the good guy in abrahamic religions. I perceive him as a hero that gave us enlightenment, freedom and critical thinking (which is why religions paint him as a bad guy). The devil is the ultimate symbol of liberty and knowledge.
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted February 10, 2013 01:48 PM |
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Knowledge and liberty is evil Xerox. You belong to God and to doubt and criticize his holy church is to insult and spit on God himself. Repent Xerox or go to hell...
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted February 10, 2013 08:49 PM |
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Quote:
from time to time i will hump a leg, tho.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted February 10, 2013 08:52 PM |
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Quote:
Knowledge and liberty is evil Xerox. You belong to God and to doubt and criticize his holy church is to insult and spit on God himself. Repent Xerox or go to hell...
Xerox just said that the devil is a good ol' chum, and you want to punish him by sending him to hell?
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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GunFred
Supreme Hero
Sexy Manticore
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posted February 10, 2013 10:11 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Knowledge and liberty is evil Xerox. You belong to God and to doubt and criticize his holy church is to insult and spit on God himself. Repent Xerox or go to hell...
Xerox just said that the devil is a good ol' chum, and you want to punish him by sending him to hell?
Of course, he is consorting with the devil and thus evil. It is that simple. Xerox says that Satan is good but God and the bible say that Satan is evil. No need to explain it anymore than that because obviously Xerox does not have the credability that God has and disagreeing with the church is wrong and evil.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted February 10, 2013 10:44 PM |
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Quote:
I've long thought that Satan/Lucifer is the good guy in abrahamic religions. I perceive him as a hero that gave us enlightenment, freedom and critical thinking (which is why religions paint him as a bad guy). The devil is the ultimate symbol of liberty and knowledge.
Its the story of Prometheus except that it is inverted and twisted.
The "Binding of Isaac" is a much more revealing story about Abramaic religions that displays that every religious follower should be ready to sacrifice his own kid to proove that he/she loves god.
While quite a horror story, it just about shows the real morality behind religion. Sure, some people dont see it that way, but the mere fact thats in there shows alot.
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"Science is not fun without cyanide"
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted February 10, 2013 10:54 PM |
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Edited by artu at 00:07, 11 Feb 2013.
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Quote:
I was always under the impression that Hell was for people that would enjoy it. Adultery murder, theft. God loves all and the idea of punishment seems ludicrous, you simply get what you deserve, everything under the sun is a reward, everything from death, to life.
There's no good and bad, find who you are in this life and enjoy the after-life, simple as, it's a grand voyage of self discovery. And when you are bored, when you tire of playing the same game, tired of licking the honey jar from the outside, then your heart will yearn for home.
That, of course, is a very modern, even post-modern way of looking at things. However, back in times when religions emerged, in a world where 99 percent of the people were illiterate, brought up by beatings regularly, that was not the case. The images of torture were very real to them and they were not putting AC/DC in the stereo ang singing along "I'm on the hiiighway to hell", they were scared snowless of it.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted February 11, 2013 07:56 PM |
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The best part is that Hell has always been depicted much better, with great many details, as opposed to Heaven. This is so since the first pre-Christian religions which ultimately spawned the Christianity itself and remains so even nowadays. As far as the Christianity is concerned, it has always been more interested - from a purely psychological perspective - in the Devil than in God - the former being much better personalized and described while the latter has almost no personality except that of Jesus, who is ultimately a "human-god". Islam's case is similar, although not entirely.
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NoobX
Undefeatable Hero
Now, this is a paradox...
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posted February 14, 2013 10:52 PM |
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Edited by NoobX at 09:11, 15 Feb 2013.
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Quote:
trolls in this thread, man... there is no god. no devil. no afterlife. this is stone age thinking. the native americans believed in spirits in nature, like rock spirits, tree and plant spirits, air spirits, etc. if everybody has different ways of believing in things, that negates the idea itself. like santa claus. religion is just another form of government, and it WAS an early version of government. now it is just self-government. what religion tells you is bad are things that come naturally to you. religion is directly against nature, and i will have none of that. it's just not natural. 
i go the other way. i do the natural thing, and take my cue from animals. human beings ARE animals, so why not? the only thing i don't do is clean myself with my tongue, and masturbate in public. from time to time i will hump a leg, tho. 
Can someone QP the man already?
So, guys, why the **** do I get shushed every time I say that I don't believe in God and that I want to be an atheist? Am I forced to be a Christian? Can't I have the freedom to think the way I want?
I feel that my rights are not respected.
This is something that made me hate religion - it's like it's trying to brainwash you into becoming a minion for a sentient deity that has control over everything.
Am I the only person experiencing this?
____________
Ghost said:
Door knob resembles anus tap.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted February 14, 2013 11:18 PM |
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Quote:
Can't I have the freedom to think the way I want?
No, freedom is not a gift that you're handed, you are given shackles and the means to unshackle yourself. If nature is what you seek, and the shackles that they bring then bask in this illusion to your heart's content, and forgive the over zealous for their ultra vires.
Though I do agree with the point that religions do tend to try to force 'good' unto people. (despite the fact that they're far from it) I know the way the thinking goes, since I had experience of it and see the logic to it, for example I had a conversation with a scientologist, who thought that he knows what I ought to have more than I do. He may have been right, but that is irrelevant, if I do not have personal motivation then I am just a slave to another's purpose, in this instance his.
No matter how good your cause is, forcing people to see it will never work out. Besides, if your cause is truly righteous then you can be assured of it by seeing people flock to your banner.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted February 14, 2013 11:28 PM |
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Well we have many shackles, but we've the freedom to try to identify and remove those shackles.
Do you remember you first love? My guess is that was an example of how you were shackled to your emotions at that time, because most likely, you didn't chose the girl/boy, and most likely you wouldn't have, had your body not.
But you're from Serbia right? So isn't there something about in Eastern Europe children are still often taught what to believe in when it comes to religion? While in the non-US western world, religion teaching is more about what is contained in this belief and the history behind it, and what consequences it has in today's world, how it helped and damaged building the modern society. Whereas other places, I believe children are taught stuff like God exists. I've even heard about places where parents tell their children about this guy who at Christmas night burgles their home, but in stead of stealing presents, he leaves more presents. I wonder who'd believe in such a phony Santa duplicate, obviously if such person existed, real Santa would kick his behind!
Quote:
No matter how good your cause is, forcing people to see it will never work out. Besides, if your cause is truly righteous then you can be assured of it by seeing people flock to your banner.
And crucifying you as well?
Quote:
Thanks for that, comes from the constant editing, which is ironic
You're welcome. It's probably due to native language, but I have a hard time imagining confusing "then" and "than". I am sure similarly there are words I'll often confuse, which you'd never do.
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Living time backwards
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted February 14, 2013 11:34 PM |
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Nope, then is used correctly to signify an outcome. Thanks for that, comes from the constant editing, which is ironic,
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 05, 2013 05:32 AM |
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Edited by artu at 05:55, 05 Apr 2013.
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Jolly Joker says in another thread:
Quote:
God exists or not. He doesn't exist with 50%
That fifty-fifty kind of agnosticism (not all agnostics put it like that) always seemed wrong to me, since
1- We have the social sciences that tell as how the idea of god(s) evolved through out history. So we know how the concept came into life by all materialistic means.
2- The explanation of God is magical by category, if we don't give 50-50 credibility to, say, gremlins, why should we give it to the concept of God? If we're dealing with something unlikely, it is reasonable to use closed world assumption. Otherwise anything not falsifiable gets 50 percent credit.
For example, the hypothesis of the multiverse can be dealt with 50-50 credibility as of now, since we can't observe beyond this single universe and there is no specific reason not to assume there are others as well. But when it comes to god(s) , the odds are really much much lower.
Oh, and if we are specifically talking about an omnipotent god (which to must people comes with the definition itself), there is the paradox of omnipotence I mentioned earlier in this thread, just for salt and pepper:
If there are natural laws, laws that can be observed, calculated, known, then even if you assume it, God (or Gods or any kind of supreme being) can't be omnipotent. He will simply be only the executive officer of these laws. That is quite a useless character, a redundance.
If on the other hand there is an omnipotent entity and miracles are possible, it is impossible and useless to try to know or understand anything. You can not give a valid meaning to anything because you may be created five seconds ago with installed memories, and everything in your perception, anything you can observe, calculate may be an illusion that is imposed to you by that omnipotent creature
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 05, 2013 11:19 AM |
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For me, there is a big difference, whether we speak about the general concept of one or more "gods" or "deities", defined non-random or even somehow sentient creative force(s) and their existence, or whether we speak about a specific god, like the Bible would describe him.
While I am pretty agnostic when it comes to the general concept - I wouldn't say it's impossible - I'm an atheist when it comes to the specific God or gods.
Which probably means, I might be a religious man or believe in a religion, if there only was one I could find believable.
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted April 05, 2013 08:13 PM |
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Edited by Seraphim at 20:15, 05 Apr 2013.
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Could somebody tell me this:
If a person never did any wrongs, never insulted anybody, helped others BUT does not believe in God or any prophet, will he he/she be "Sent to hell" from a religious point of view?
I assume that not believing a god is the secret 8th sin and thus they will end up in hell.
If this holds true, than theists have absolutely no moral highground because sending someone to hell just because they dont believe in a god is immoral.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted April 05, 2013 08:18 PM |
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A quote-
"And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."
Does this quote answer your question?
____________
"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted April 05, 2013 08:30 PM |
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Quote:
A quote-
"And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love."
Does this quote answer your question?
No.
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master_learn
Legendary Hero
walking to the library
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posted April 05, 2013 08:34 PM |
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I thought that you can deduce from the quote I provided that love is greater than faith/religion.
So no reason said man to go to hell.
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"I heard the latest HD version disables playing Heroes. Please reconsider."-Salamandre
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