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Tsar-Ivor
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Scourge of God
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posted January 18, 2012 12:13 AM |
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Who said anything about banning sex ed?
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted January 18, 2012 12:14 AM |
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You serious?
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gnomes2169
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Duke of the Glade
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posted January 18, 2012 12:16 AM |
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Quote:
What IS your point, anyway?
**** I don't even know anymore, I just feel like I'm just talking to a wall so I guess that I'm rambling. You are saying that there is no problem with 10-12 year olds having sex, right?
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted January 18, 2012 12:17 AM |
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Quote:
You serious?
I'm all serious, I want quotes, and not just one or two either, I want every, single, one. (I have a feeling dear Ad is going to turn up emty handed ^^)
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted January 18, 2012 12:19 AM |
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I had sex at a young age, we did it because we were supposed to do it, we were both scared out of our asses... Did I care, no I didnt, but once you get closer to your thirties and family is no longer a distant concept, the idea of my daughter having some retard on top of her at the age of 13 suddenly doesnt sound all tha positive...
Its a "hypocritical parent" aspect, we all encounter it sooner or later...
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She turned me into a newt!
A newt?
I got better
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted January 18, 2012 12:19 AM |
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Edited by Adrius at 00:20, 18 Jan 2012.
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Eh... ok... well I ain't gonna do that...
Well Ivor see here... it would appear that some people here do not believe sex-ed belongs in the educational plan... which to me equals a desire to ban sex-ed in schools.
So there you have it.
EDIT:
@Smithey: Sorry to hear that. You believe faulty sex-ed was the cause?
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted January 18, 2012 12:21 AM |
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Who exactly are you referring to? I only ask so that I can use my quotation powers to prove you wrong.
Edit: Quote:
Ivor get outta my OSM, I'm having a serious moment here and you're making me wanna draw rage comics of Peducard blasting your torso into bits rather than discussing.
You're being evasive because you are wrong, you cannot deceive me!
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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gnomes2169
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posted January 18, 2012 12:21 AM |
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Quote:
I had sex at a young age, we did it because we were supposed to do it, we were both scared out of our asses... Did I care, no I didnt, but once you get closer to your thirties and family is no longer a distant concept, the idea of my daughter having some retard on top of her at the age of 13 suddenly doesnt sound all tha positive...
Its a "hypocritical parent" aspect, we all encounter it sooner or later...
WTH kind of sex-ed does your godless country have.  Seriously, WTH. The Sex-ed we were talking about is just what I taught (see one of my wall posts) to those little kiddies...
Once again, WTH.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted January 18, 2012 12:22 AM |
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Ivor get outta my OSM, I'm having a serious moment here and you're making me wanna draw rage comics of Peducard blasting your torso into bits rather than discussing.
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Smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted January 18, 2012 12:28 AM |
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Nothing to be sorry about, as I said its a hypocritical cycle, when we do it its cool, when its done to our daughters its a whole different story... Every parent is that way I assume...
I dont know whats the reason, maybe it was sex ed that made sex into the hot topic maybe it was the age, I just think it should be done 1 on 1 by parents insted of the bomb being dropped in schools.. thats all, but as JJ said, I have a problem....
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gnomes2169
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posted January 18, 2012 12:31 AM |
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Maybe this would be better in the Downhill times thread...? We have gone quite a bit off-topic here with all of this, so I would suggest moving. Thus shall we be spared the great mod-hammer of Corribus.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Adrius
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Stand and fight!
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posted January 18, 2012 12:45 AM |
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Quote:
You are saying that there is no problem with 10-12 year olds having sex, right?
Ok... wow.... pretty sure everyone is misunderstanding each other pretty damn hard right now.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
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Scourge of God
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posted January 18, 2012 12:59 AM |
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You need osme catching up to do Ad:
Quote:
I wouldn't have had a problem IF my daughter have had sex age 12 (the reason is that I would have been fairly sure she would NOT be too immature if she had, because I have tried to "protect" her with a responsible education.)
It wouldn't be such a **** storm if people weren't stumbling over eachother's words. 
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Adrius
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Stand and fight!
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posted January 18, 2012 01:02 AM |
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Edited by Adrius at 01:06, 18 Jan 2012.
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Emphasis on HIS daughter, whereas the quote I used is about 10-12 year olds in general.
You're very focused on one-upping me aren't ya? 
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gnomes2169
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posted January 18, 2012 01:13 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
You are saying that there is no problem with 10-12 year olds having sex, right?
Ok... wow.... pretty sure everyone is misunderstanding each other pretty damn hard right now.
That's what I thought.  Shutting up now.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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JollyJoker
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posted January 18, 2012 10:26 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
You are saying that there is no problem with 10-12 year olds having sex, right?
Ok... wow.... pretty sure everyone is misunderstanding each other pretty damn hard right now.
That's what I thought. Shutting up now.
My opinion is, that it's not a question of age. If your puberty is late - 8-16 is considered normal, which means no reason to worry -, if you are 15 or 16 (instead of 8 or 9), then obviously 15 or even 16 would maybe a bit early.
But education is meant to enable kids to make decisions for themselves, and as parents we want control over education because we think that our children are special and deserve special treatment and education, depending on how they actually are.
While that is true in a sense, those kids are not isolated either. Sure, in theory, and seen for themselves, someone who will come with 15 or 16 into puberty might be educated in a different way than someone who starts with 8 or 9.
However, since kids are together and talk, as soon as things start to roll, it's an issue, and while a lone 8-year-old probably won't talk about these things, the older they get, the more they will talk, and while for an 8-year-old the questions will be like, mummy, am I different?, the same thing will be said by a 14- or even 15-year-old, when still nothing happened.
What that means is, that the individuality of education has certain limits, and that's why nothing is wrong with an early sex ed. 9 or 10 for the first basic stuff sounds right, and 12 or 13 for the more mature and intimate stuff as well.
Now, in practise, the question cannot be, whether I would have no problem with 10 or 12-year olds having sex. This is a GENERAL question, and I don't think that question can be answered in general.
The first thing is, that we have stop thinking in right and wrong here. Things that CAN happen, WILL happen, one way or another, everyone knows that. Not with everyone, of course, but there will be cases of early sexual activity. Nature doesn't need sex education to imprint the basic facts of the reproduction of life into beings. I think, if two people in parallel stages of their development know each other from childhood - are friends -, it may be considered somewhat natural when they start to explore the new world that opens up for them. If done step by step and with a certain care and respect, I'm very sure that it can be quite beautiful.
But the age depends, right? If we take the average numbers, say 12.5 years for the girl and one more year for the boy, if the girl was 13.5, and the boy 14.5, could we say it was wrong if both, who may know themselves already for a long time make their first tentaive steps there?
If we now take a pair that was 1 and a half year faster, 11 and 12, and if we give them a half year longer to "mature" than the first example, would we say it was wrong for them to take their first tentative steps with 12.5 and 13.5?
And look at which age we are now.
So I wouldn't say there is no problem with it. But I also wouldn't say that there is NECESSARILY a problem with it. See, MY educational goal has always been to enable my daughter to decide for herself. Consequently, there comes the time when I have to trust not only HER but also my own education. And if it would happen, or have happened, that she had become sexually active rather early, the question isn't necessarily "what went wrong?"
That's why sex education has to be right. It's obviously not enough to relate the bare facts - if we want our children to be responsible, we have to explain to them not only the HOW, but also the WHY. It makes no sense to tell them "to wait". It makes much more sense to explain to them, that sex is a very delicate thing that can be extremely bautiful, but also extremely bad - like climbing a mountain: if you reach the top, it will be great, but you have to look out, if you slip and fall things can end quite bad. And to explain what would help.
And should you teach, that if you are uncertain, it is always a good idea to make one step at a time and once in a while stop and consider where you stand and how you feel, instead of just closing one's eyes, crossing one's fingers and jump ahead, you probably do well - but you also got to trust them when they start making those steps.
So I'd say, the younger people are, IF they actually begin, the more time they should take for each "stage" of sexual "approaching". (Which isn't to say that 15-year-olds should plunge into it, not at all.)
Just as there are differences in the age people reach puberty, there are differences in when people would be "ready" to make their first sexual experiences, and if there ARE those who do it early, I wouldn't say, that it's necessarily a desaster. It may - indeed - be a sign of being "oversexed", which would hint at sexual abuse as a child - but it may just as well be an act of "trustful curiosity".
It should be clear that an 11-year-old girl that started to menstruate with 9 is different from an 11-year-old girl that didn't even start puberty. The hormonal differences alone...
To bring this to an end - I think we need to do better than telling kids, you are not allowed to do this or that, just because we are afraid they cannot handle things. With other things we take care to teach them. Is there a correct age when to learn to ride a bike? When and how to let kiddo ride alone? Onto the street? Before actually letting a kid ride alone, you will make sure that kiddo knows their way around traffic, does the right things, knows what is important, is careful.
With sex, that's not possible. We cannot accompany our children, watch over them and direct them, and we cannot know with absolute certainty, not even when we teach biking, that "now" it's ok, and everything will be alright.
In fact, these things are basically the test of our education. Once they reach a certain stage of their life, our education will be nothing more than advice.
And allow me a last note - we are eager to know all kind of stuff about our children, especially later: whether they are happy with their job and so on. But for most it would be awkward as hell to talk about how things have developed, sexually. How happy the kids are in that department. If our daughters are grown-up and have a lasting friendship, we look at the guy, how he looks, what he does, what job he has or plans to get, what our impression is... But would we ask us whether he's a good and tender lover, whether he's making her happy? And more, would we ask ourselves whether SHE's a good lover and makes HIM happy? Would we talk about THAT with our children?
We should know that this is quite an important thing for a lasting relationship, and we should make sure with our education that our children have the confidence to really explore this and TAKE THEIR TIME, so that they find the right partner and have no fear to look for them. They should not (have to) be afraid, as they shouldn't be afraid of life itself.
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Elodin
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Free Thinker
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posted January 18, 2012 11:59 AM |
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Parents are the best ones to decide what is appropriate to teach their children about sex and when. Not some loony pervert on the school board or some loony pervert in Washington DC.
10 year olds are simply too immature for sex. The time when come when it is appropriate for a person to have sex, but 10 years old is certainly NOT that time. No amount of saying, "But sex is fun and they are capable of making babies so they should be having sex" will make it right.
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JollyJoker
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posted January 18, 2012 12:22 PM |
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Who says, they SHOULD HAVE sex?
Also, I would like to know what your understanding of "having sex" is. Any kind of sexual contact? Just doing "it"? What?
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted January 18, 2012 01:30 PM |
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Edited by meroe at 13:30, 18 Jan 2012.
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JJ you are assuming much here. Firstly, no one in this thread has ever said to keep their children ignorant. No what we have simply said (disregarding rantings on both sides) is that it is ultimately a parent's responsibility to explain the birds and bees regarding everything to do with their own child and not hand that responsibility over to a Government decision or schools ideology.
Also partly that home sex. ed. will include teaching and explaining to your own children that sex before 16/18 is not something you want them to do, as they will still have schooling etc etc and that your expectations are that they at least respect your wishes for their own good (hopefully .. as we all know that some will and some won't). We might not be able to control our adolescent children's actions 100% of the time, but we can control the type of education and information they will be receiving before puberty. But stating that at 12/13/14 if they 'start to explore' with each other is not a bad thing is also rather naive. That age is still too young. You are still looking at things from an adults perspective.
But what you experience as an adult (probably in a loving, long term relationship) is not the same as two mentally immature kids heavy petting (or worse). You are simply wrong. And lets not get into 'any type of sexual contact' scenario, because we don't need to educate our children regarding kissing and cuddling.
You yourself said 'TAKE THEIR TIME', which is exactly what I mentioned above. You eduate your own children, your own way, you give them the information they need and you explain to them the laws, your hopes for them etc etc and then hope you have helped them and that they grow into healthy, mature and responsible young adults. But what you don't do is tell yourself that despite all this your child had 'sexual contact' or penetrative sex with a school friend at 12, but as they don't appear damaged by it, its okay. No its not okay. Its a failure on your part. Any parent who has a child participating in anything more than innocent dating with a peer at that age, has not taught their child properly at all.
Regardless of the 'maturity' level, having sex too young, especially for girls, can cause a physical damage and issues that affect her seriously both mentally and physically in later life. So regardless of how physically mature our children might appear to you, they should be discouraged from experimenting sexually; be educated by their parents in an honest and open way especially regarding rights and wrongs that are important to the family (morally, spiritually etc), with little interference from schools and Government. We don't have children to give schools something to do or to pass over to the Government, so why would we do so regarding some of the most important life lessons they would need.
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Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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JollyJoker
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posted January 18, 2012 03:09 PM |
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I think you are fundamentally wrong, and I disagree with you in a fundamental way.
Statements like Quote:
Also partly that home sex. ed. will include teaching and explaining to your own children that sex before 16/18 is not something you want them to do, as they will still have schooling etc etc and that your expectations are that they at least respect your wishes for their own good
are so far from everything I consider reasonable and right, that every discussion is useless.
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