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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted January 13, 2012 02:18 PM |
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Restricting who can have children is far too totalitarian and oppressive. Where would it end?? You can't drive cars/curfews/unable to marry/live with someone without the State's say so, is crazy. We shouldn't even be thinking such things.
The best we can do is educate and ensure that we have a good, fair, modern social services to assist those who have problems.
People are only discussing this because the mother has been arrested. So many more children suffer at the hands of their parents - sexual abuse, physical, mental abuse. And you most probably have even socialised/known some of these people and you never had a clue what they were guilty of or what they experienced.
So no, believing there is a way to restrict or sanction parenting isn't the answer.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 13, 2012 02:23 PM |
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Honestly, I don't think what she did is anything more than mildly retarded. I wouldn't call it majorly retarded.
You don't think placing a dangerous electrical appliance, particularly one that gets very hot, in your baby's crib is more than mildly retarded? Forget the falling asleep part - that's just complete carlessness. Using you're logic, putting a heated waffle iron in your baby's crib wouldn't be more than "mildly retarded". What about a handgun? I mean, babies just get into everything. Nothing you can do about it really.
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My question is: if the mother/boyfriend were watching a movie and fell asleep, and the child stuck something in its mouth and choked (a very common death for babies), would the mother still be going to jail? Choking is, after all, mostly preventable. Keep your house in order and keep small stuff where they can't get it. Yet it still happens.
No, that's not right at all. As a parent you need to know what kinds of objects are laying around. If you leave a bunch of choking hazards in your baby's crib and the baby chokes while you're asleep, you're damn right you're responsible. It's your job as a parent to protect your kid AT ALL TIMES - which includes nap time and TV time and mealtime and screwing your boyfriend time. Yeah, accidents happen despite the best vigilence, but when you KNOW you're kid is going to be unsupervised, it's your responsibility to make sure the child is AS SAFE AS POSSIBLE. Leaving marbles in the crib is failing as a parent. And leaving a running hairdrier in a crib is failing as a parent. It's more than mildly retarded - it's criminally negligent.
And yes, if the baby chokes to death on a marble that's left in his or her crib, I think the mother should be held responsible. Problem is that many people don't take parenthood seriously. If you're going to have a kid, be a good parent. There's no off duty time. There's no break. It's the fullest time job there is. If you can't handle that, don't have a kid.
Seriously blizz, you think shrugging your shoulders and saying "well, snow happens" is an excuse? 
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Mentat
Disgraceful
Known Hero
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posted January 13, 2012 02:29 PM |
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The best we can do is educate and ensure that we have a good, fair, modern social services to assist those who have problems.
I may derail this thread with this but...
It's a fact that humans breed like vermins. Sounds awfull? Maybe but it's true!
And humans do so despite the fact they know that our planet is overpopulated. Just breed, breed and breed and don't care about the planet but immediately start to cry out loud if mother nature show them their foolishness...
Why have someone 3-4-5 or more children if they can't raise 1? Why raise someone a children which can't be live a normal life and shall be a parasite of the society?
The breedin must be controlled or there comes option 2: Slaughter of billions.
Which one do you choose? Restrictions to limit the population and breeding of mankind or free breeding but slaughtering of billions?
This planet won't grow bigger and richer.
Sooner humans realise this is better. Or they will collapse and the whole race become extinct or fall back in the state of semi-intelligent tribes of barbarians roaming the polluted wastelands remains after their idiotic and half-wittedly thinking ancestors.
Until we can't colonize other planets we must do something.
Restrictions
or
Exterminations
I, myself vote for restrictions. What you choose is your own business... But there are no more option than these two...
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted January 13, 2012 02:31 PM |
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Sooner humans realise this is better. Or they will collapse and the whole race become extinct or fall back in the state of semi-intelligent tribes of barbarians roaming the polluted wastelands
And after this, The God-Emperor will rise to conquer the techno-barbarians and lift humanity to the stars.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted January 13, 2012 02:36 PM |
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Actually, a funny thing about societies in general is that once they advance to a certain point (what we would call "Advanced" today), the people breed less and less. The only reason the US's population is growing is the fact that there is immigration. Parents (even most of the dumb ones) subconsciously realize that they do not need to have 4+ children, because all, if not most, of their progeny will survive, disease and death by starvation become less and less likely (unless you are part of the poorest members), and this means that you won't be having as many children, because you don't need or even want them.
So the third solution is, advance every single country up to our current level of tech. And I do mean every single country. Personally, I don't want to do this because there are some rather terrible countries out their right now that i don't want to give any power to, since they will just use it to wage war and oppress people.
Anyway... enough OT.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted January 13, 2012 02:40 PM |
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Restricting how many children we can have will lead to the mass murder of baby girls i.e. China, Saudi Arabia.
So that option is a no go.
And extermination?? Are you serious?
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 13, 2012 02:46 PM |
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So the third solution is, advance every single country up to our current level of tech.
It's not just the technology. There's a degree of social evolution that goes along with it. Even within the US, different subcultures tend to have different numbers of children, on average. Conservative religious families (Catholics and Mormons in particular) tend to have more children than more secular families, for example. So, throwing technology at impoverished nations won't unfortunately solve the problem of population.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Mentat
Disgraceful
Known Hero
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posted January 13, 2012 02:49 PM |
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Restricting how many children we can have will lead to the mass murder of baby girls i.e. China, Saudi Arabia.
So that option is a no go.
And extermination?? Are you serious?
Yes. It is logical.
I said there's only these two options.
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So the third solution is, advance every single country up to our current level of tech. And I do mean every single country. Personally, I don't want to do this because there are some rather terrible countries out their right now that i don't want to give any power to, since they will just use it to wage war and oppress people.
And how long will it take? You need to much time but we have less time that our politicians lies for us.
We need a solution that regulate human population within 100-150 years not a single years more. And during this time we must pray faithfully that Earth's ecologycal system won't break down because it happens we die along with the 80-90% of living species.
And the planet will be home of the starfaring ants, wasps or whatever arthropod life form...
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OmegaDestroyer
Hero of Order
Fox or Chicken?
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posted January 13, 2012 02:52 PM |
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Technology won't do it. America is one of the most technologically advanced countries on the planet and yet our idiots still breed at an alarming rate.
Some people should just not be allowed to have children. Let me pull out some of my favorite work examples.
1) Woman busted for possession taking her 8-year old child to school.
2) Woman who snorted Aderol in front of her baby so she could have more energy to raise the baby.
3) Woman who got mad when she discovered her son had marijuana on him, got drunk, took the marijuana and got high, and then smacked the son across the face. The best part about that is that she was completely incapable of realizing how truly horrible that would sound in court.
4) Client who thought it was perfectly safe and acceptable to have his family babysit his child, despite his family having an extensive drug-related criminal history, notably operating & manufacturing a drug house.
5) Opposing party, who while driving without a license, while high, and with improperly secured child seats, attempted to illegally pass someone and then flipped his van.
____________
The giant has awakened
You drink my blood and drown
Wrath and raving I will not stop
You'll never take me down
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 13, 2012 02:53 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 14:55, 13 Jan 2012.
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Quote:
And humans do so despite the fact they know that our planet is overpopulated. Just breed, breed and breed and don't care about the planet but immediately start to cry out loud if mother nature show them their foolishness...
The planet might be generally overpopulated but the different countries are certainly not always overpopulated. You have migration from the poor countries to the rich ones and as a result the former actually need to encourage the greater birth rates if they want to have any long-term future. Less people = less workforce = lower productivity (if there are no technological substitutes and there usually aren't) = lower living standard = emigration + negative population growth = less people... Believe me, you don't want this to happen if you live in such a country.
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Mentat
Disgraceful
Known Hero
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posted January 13, 2012 02:58 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
And humans do so despite the fact they know that our planet is overpopulated. Just breed, breed and breed and don't care about the planet but immediately start to cry out loud if mother nature show them their foolishness...
The planet might be generally overpopulated but the different countries are certainly not always overpopulated. You have migration from the poor countries to the rich ones and as a result the former actually need to encourage the greater birth rates if they want to have any long-term future. Less people = less workforce = lower productivity (if there are no technological substitutes and there usually aren't) = lower living standard = emigration + negative population growth = less people... Believe me, you don't want this to happen if you live in such a country.
And this lead us back to the main problem.
Restriction or extermination.
Or extinction...
However we may hope that a starfaring race come here and attack us, kill 90% of the population and they solve our problems.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 13, 2012 03:08 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 15:08, 13 Jan 2012.
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Restrictions will just underline the already existing problems, I don't think they will solve them. And it's not like people normally control their sexual behaviour. I blame the source code.
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted January 13, 2012 03:22 PM |
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Edited by meroe at 15:22, 13 Jan 2012.
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I'd be careful what you wish for. If Europe had adopted the one-child policy (restricting how many children a couple can have - which you support) ... there's a 90% chance that both you and I, Mentat would have only lived a few minutes, before being buried alive the garden!!!
Do you honestly believe that this is the best solution? ... that forcing people rather than really educating them, is the way to go?
I don't.
I've worked in a hospital (Mother and Baby Unit being one of the departments my work covered) and I can assure you that dealing with abandoned babies, unwanted females (certain cultures) and the horrible after effects of attempted home abortions would make you rethink your statements.
The reality is that there a certain countries and cultures that still believe that males are more valuable than females, especially when poor, uneducated and with limited resources. And its these male dominated mysoginist societies that will continue to over populate until they join the modern world and start using their brains.
I don't have the answers. But what I do know is that any form of extermination or harsh restriction along these lines, makes people no better than those who practice infanticide out of sheer ignorance and stupidity.
The case that this thread was originally about, shows the most appalling stupidity and ignorance, with tragic and totally avoidable consquences.
Education is a much better answer than extermination.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 13, 2012 03:25 PM |
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You can't educate someone who doesn't want to be educated. If people don't care about being good parents, what makes you think they'll care about learning how to be good parents?
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 13, 2012 03:35 PM |
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Quote:
The planet might be generally overpopulated but the different countries are certainly not always overpopulated. You have migration from the poor countries to the rich ones and as a result the former actually need to encourage the greater birth rates if they want to have any long-term future. Less people = less workforce = lower productivity (if there are no technological substitutes and there usually aren't) = lower living standard = emigration + negative population growth = less people... Believe me, you don't want this to happen if you live in such a country.
that's not exactly true, because in our system, the only thing we count at the end to see if we made any progress is how much money we did. and money is something that is mostly virtual. you can create as much of it as you want, and it is actually supposed to constantly increase.
personnaly, I think there is a balance to find between too little work and too much work. and I think our problem is too much work, because as I said, we only look at how much money we make, and more we work, more we make money. but what we don't consider, is that when we work too much, we consume resources that weren't really needed at that time, but might have been far more useful in a different situation.
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted January 13, 2012 03:36 PM |
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Quote:
You can't educate someone who doesn't want to be educated. If people don't care about being good parents, what makes you think they'll care about learning how to be good parents?
This is true, but its often those people who have become parents are more than happy to pass over their children for adoption. Its also where social services can step in ... help and if need be remove the children for their safety, which leads to adoption.
No its not perfect, but its a hell of a lot better than extermination or oppression. I mean seriously, do people honestly think that by punishing a newborn baby because their parents are idiots .. is the right thing??!!! This is madness.
If thats the case, why was the thread started in the first place?? Everyone gets on their high horse about the stupid mother, the poor child. And now its 'well if we can't educate, extermination seems like a solution'.
Because I can assure you all, that if you believe passing laws and restricting people in having sex/reproducing will only result in increased sexual violence, back street abortions, sexual slavery etc etc.
____________
Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 13, 2012 03:45 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 15:56, 13 Jan 2012.
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Quote:
that's not exactly true, because in our system, the only thing we count at the end to see if we made any progress is how much money we did. and money is something that is mostly virtual. you can create as much of it as you want, and it is actually supposed to constantly increase.
Maybe true for Western Europe and USA, here in Bulgaria many people work for survival and can rarely afford to raise more than 2 children (and 2 is usually considered one too many). It may not be Central Africa but you'll rarely encounter someone with "money is something virtual" philosophy.
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I mean seriously, do people honestly think that by punishing a newborn baby because their parents are idiots .. is the right thing??!!!
What is right and what is wrong is a very slippery topic but if the parents are idiots, there's a very high chance that the child will be an idiot too. So the innocent baby will probably grow into a somehow deformed human being if he/she's just unwanted and raised with little to no care in the best case or into some psycho if he/she's abused and mishandled in the worst.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 13, 2012 03:56 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 15:57, 13 Jan 2012.
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and is the problem really the amount of workforce? the larger it is, the most people you need to feed and accommodate. of course, you need a minimum of people, because you need a range of differents talents. the workforce of your country is probably not worse than the workforce of another country. but for the same amount of work, you receive far less money than an american for example.
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Darkshadow
Legendary Hero
Cerise Princess
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posted January 13, 2012 03:58 PM |
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Quote:
Less people = less workforce = lower productivity (if there are no technological substitutes and there usually aren't) = lower living standard = emigration + negative population growth = less people... Believe me, you don't want this to happen if you live in such a country.
Bwahahaha.
The more we manage to purge the flesh replace humans with machines, the better.
____________
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted January 13, 2012 04:07 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 16:09, 13 Jan 2012.
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and is the problem really the amount of workforce? the larger it is, the most people you need to feed and accommodate. of course, you need a minimum of people, because you need a range of differents talents. the workforce of your country is probably not worse than the workforce of another country. but for the same amount of work, you receive far less money than an american for example.
Oh, that's the true but there are other things that have to be taken into consideration and they change the picture - i.e. it's not the whole truth after all. For example - the people who are leaving the country - often for good - belong mostly to the last 2-3 generations. Respectively those who remain here are older. So the number of the people who belong to the actual active workforce is dwindling (by the way one of the recent controversial laws that has been passed through out National Assembly is regarding the increase of the retirement age - guess why). Another thing - the well-educated and highly skilled individuals prefer to move and work abroad where they will get 5-10 or more times better salaries for the same thing that they would do here - hence the low-skill labour is becoming predominant and you will not find many low-skill professions that are well-paid. And so on.
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