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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted January 16, 2012 05:25 PM |
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Meroe: Why do you live near a backwards fundy school?
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted January 16, 2012 05:30 PM |
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I'm seriously contemplating whether or not I've been wasting my breath (I know ha ha) on children  .
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 16, 2012 05:34 PM |
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@Meroe
Quote:
Many thousands of years ago, girls menstruated much earlier and therefore because they died (if they were lucky) at about 40, they matured earlier and had children earlier.
I'm not sure about thousands of years ago (and suspect this is just something you pulled out of thin air) but children now (especially girls) are reaching puberty at much earlier ages than they did in the recent past (say 30-50 years ago). I'm not sure there is a universally agreed upon explanation for this fact but I suspect that the increased number of hormones in our food supply, as well as a prevalence of soy in the modern western diet, has something to do with it.
In any case, JJ is right about one thing - if you are biologically able to have children, you need to be given information about the new tools at your disposal. Refusing to teach children ANYTHING about sex until they reach 15-16 years old is like giving a child a loaded handgun for his or her tenth birthday and then telling them you'll teach them the right way to use it in a couple of years.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted January 16, 2012 05:38 PM |
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But why give them a loaded gun if they shouldn't use it?
It's like telling a child about the joys of sex and companionship only to tell them that it is illegal for another 5 years. I'm glad to know you find joy in sadism, that doesn't mean I agree with you.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted January 16, 2012 06:15 PM |
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Nobody gave them a loaded gun, it grew out of their crotch on its own.
A kid is going to become horny whether or not you say anything. For that matter, your sexual nature does not begin when you hit puberty; it is augmented. It begins on month -6. Are you saying you didn't start having sexual fantasies until somebody gave you a thorough explanation of sex? My 5-year-old niece blurted out just the other week that I am her boyfriend. She apparently doesn't understand that 1) I'm her uncle, and 2) She's at least 1 year too old for me... I mean.... 12 years too young for me. She also likes watching kid's movies about romance. Why? Nobody forcibly pointed her in that direction. All the same, she loves the part in Aladdin when they kiss.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted January 16, 2012 06:41 PM |
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Edited by Smithey at 19:08, 16 Jan 2012.
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Quote:
In any case, JJ is right about one thing - if you are biologically able to have children, you need to be given information about the new tools at your disposal. Refusing to teach children ANYTHING about sex until they reach 15-16 years old is like giving a child a loaded handgun for his or her tenth birthday and then telling them you'll teach them the right way to use it in a couple of years.
Talking about exaggerated analogies....
Last I checked you had children Corribus, and last I checked they just like all the other kids are biologically capable of dying, killing a person, doing drugs and many other things kids shouldnt be going through...
I wonder if you had a talk about drugs, death or whatever as soon as they became bologically capable of such things or did you choose to go with santa and other fairy tales instead, preserving their innocence....
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted January 16, 2012 07:29 PM |
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Quote:
Last I checked you had children Corribus, and last I checked they just like all the other kids are biologically capable of dying, killing a person, doing drugs and many other things kids shouldnt be going through...
I wonder if you had a talk about drugs, death or whatever as soon as they became bologically capable for such things or did you choose to go with santa and other fairy tales instead, preserving their innocence....
Let me clarify something for you, the reason why we wait to teach children about drugs and alcohol is not because they suddenly become "Biologically capable," -when the hell aren't you capable to do anything physically but get pregnant/ make women pregnant?- since then we would be explaining sex, drugs and beer to a child that had just emerged from a womb that has no frontal lobe development or memory capabilities, let alone a language. No, we wait until the child is not only physically/ biologically capable, but also mentally capable. If you teach something to someone who will not be able to understand it/ learn from it/ remember it, then you might as well be talking to the wall. There is no point in wasting time with education that will not stick anyway, right?
Hence waiting until an age when children can generally understand what the implications of an action are, and when hormones generally start up/ are about to start up and make them do stupid things. "Preserving innocence" is just a way to teach a child to use their imagination and to start the understanding process, not a way to shield them from a cold, heartless world that they cannot deal with. Their mind is able to handle that itself (selective memory loss/ blocking, DID (Disassociative Identity Disorder, AKA, Multiple personality disorder, the act of locking a memory away until you are mentally able to deal with it), inability to take many serious things seriously, etc).
Also, what you are attempting to do is obtain an emotional response from Corribus, the moderator of the OSM. The guy who is supposed to be neutral in everything, and who is not supposed to let personal prejudiced influence his decisions. He's a robot/ cyborg person. Good luck.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 16, 2012 08:01 PM |
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Quote:
I wonder if you had a talk about drugs, death or whatever as soon as they became bologically capable of such things or did you choose to go with santa and other fairy tales instead, preserving their innocence....
My daughter is 4 and yes we've had some talks about death, war, drugs, disease and sex. Age appropriate discussions, mind you, but I see no reason to shy away from honest discussions about things that happen in real life.
Here are things we've talked about:
Sex: (1) Anatomical differences that she has noticed. (2) Where babies grow. (3) That only mommies can have babies. (4) That adults should never touch her in certain places, and other things that aren't really appropriate. Etc. Most of these discussions are prompted by questions she has asked me, and not the other way around. In short, I'll let her decide the rate of sex education.
Drugs: Most discussions here have centered around the fact that while medicines can help you, too many of them can make you sick.
War: What soldiers do. That there are bad people in the world. And etc.
Sickness and Death: What happens to animals when they get really sick. One of my elderly neighbors has really bad lung failure and is on oxygen at all times, can't walk around very well, etc. This prompts a lot of questions about sickness and mortality. I'm sure when he dies that will generate a lot more questions that we'll have to confront honestly. We've also watched some movies where people or animals die, and that has required some explanations.
About the only serious topic we really haven't waded into in some fashion is religion. It's going to be a hard one because of the way atheists are treated in US society. I haven't decided how I'm going to handle that yet, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. 
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted January 16, 2012 08:04 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 20:09, 16 Jan 2012.
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Quote:
I'm sure when he dies that will generate a lot more questions that we'll have to confront honestly
Theists do have one hell of an easier time with that, you've gotta admit.
Then again I don't understand why parents are so reluctant to go the "****ed if I know" route. You can even turn it into a "since your guess is as good as mine, let's try to guess it together" imaginative game or something, where you talk about what kinds of stuff might happen after death.
Until the missus returns from work and goes "honey what are you two talking about".
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 16, 2012 08:31 PM |
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Well I wasn't so much focused on what happens after we die but the fact that we die at all. The aspect of finality and "you'll never see this person again". But I suppose that would inevitably lead into where they go next (if they go anywhere). My daughter has mentioned the concept of heaven a few times, and she's been known t o say "Jesus Christ" a few times when she's been frustrated (endlessly amusing). But she's not asked me directly so I've not answered her directly that it's all a big fairy tale that a huge chunk of the human population collectively believes in. 
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted January 16, 2012 08:35 PM |
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Did you tell her Santa isn't real?
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 16, 2012 08:39 PM |
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Edited by Corribus at 20:39, 16 Jan 2012.
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Nah, I'll break that news at the same time I break the news about the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy and Jesus. 
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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Smithey
Promising
Supreme Hero
Yes im red, choke on it !!!
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posted January 16, 2012 08:42 PM |
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Edited by Smithey at 20:44, 16 Jan 2012.
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@ Gnomes,
1. Many girls get their first period at the age of 8-9, no girl is mentally capable of understanding what it means to have a baby nor being a mom at the age of 9 hence - perserving their innocence untill they can actually comprehend certain things.
Sex ed' in early age which preaches "dont do sex" has IMO big chances of becoming the same thing as "dont do drugs/dont smoke".. 10 year old doesnt understand what being a parent means but understands very well what a "NO" means, and usually does it just because he was told not to... thats what being kid is all about....
Parents are the ones who should be on top of things, and sex just like any other topic shouldnt be taboo topics between a parent and a child.. I much rather go through countless "weird" conversations than having my child get her/his info from the internet or whatever source....
2. Corribus has emotions, this is 2012, nowdays cyborgs have emotion chips... seriously Gnomes
@ Corribus,
That is one ninja girly you have and IMO thats how a parent should act  (Im not killing santa at the age of four though  )...
Edit : Nor am I telling my kids that Jesus is a fairy tale.. up to them to decide what to believe in....
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 16, 2012 08:45 PM |
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Corr:
Very nice read, that last longer post of yours.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted January 16, 2012 09:43 PM |
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Quote:
and Jesus
I guess you're not all that bad
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted January 16, 2012 09:55 PM |
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Essentially, whatever religion the parents follow, they'll tell it to the kid, more or less. And a smart kid'll realize that it's up to them to decide for themselves sooner than one may think. So it's no big deal whether Corry tells them that God's a fairytale, or Elodin that he's a fact, or me that he's also known as Lemmy Kilmister, as long as they're bright enough little critters. And they probably can't be too dumb if they come from people who play Heroes.
That said, looking retrospectively, I'm glad I grew up with Jesus and the crew. Not in a Santa nostalgic way, since it was kind of apparent from the start that Santa is bullcrap and religion is a bit more complicated. I liked the customs and stuff. Maybe it's cause it was Orthodoxy, not Catholicism. Catholicism seems to be one hell of a chore when you're a kid. I think it'd piss me off, what with the church on Sunday mornings and the like.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 16, 2012 10:14 PM |
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Edited by Fauch at 22:21, 16 Jan 2012.
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Quote:
My daughter has mentioned the concept of heaven a few times, and she's been known t o say "Jesus Christ" a few times when she's been frustrated (endlessly amusing). But she's not asked me directly so I've not answered her directly that it's all a big fairy tale that a huge chunk of the human population collectively believes in.
actually it used to be heaven and hell, and heaven was a motivation to act the right way and not end in hell. I noticed that many people with who I talked and who believes in heaven, usually forget about hell. that is to say, heaven is no more a motivation to act the right way, but only something some people choose to believe to not fear death.
on the subject of innocence, I sometimes wonder if children don't live in a too illusionary world. well, they learn quick enough about death and sex through movies (though, that's probably not the best way to learn, how shocking is violence to kids now? not even sure that even a 10 years old child would be very much impressed)
but take all those fairy tales we hear at the tv about people who succeeded, and they all say, as well as political figures and school teachers, etc... that you will succeed and be rich if you work hard enough, and the children get convinced that they'll live in fame and wealth.
Quote:
Essentially, whatever religion the parents follow, they'll tell it to the kid, more or less. And a smart kid'll realize that it's up to them to decide for themselves sooner than one may think. So it's no big deal whether Corry tells them that God's a fairytale, or Elodin that he's a fact, or me that he's also known as Lemmy Kilmister, as long as they're bright enough little critters.
oh I'm not so sure. let's say the parents believe very hard in their religion, they will teach everything as facts so that the child just accept and believe because it is obviously true and the best for him and so that he doesn't ask questions ever, because it would be terrible to doubt the truth.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted January 16, 2012 10:18 PM |
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Why wouldn't you want to end up in hell?
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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DagothGares
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
No gods or kings
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posted January 16, 2012 10:22 PM |
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Quote:
Catholicism seems to be one hell of a chore when you're a kid.
It's funny, because when I went to catholic school in a catholic community and I only went like twice a year and I was one of the more devout kids.
____________
If you have any more questions, go to Dagoth Cares.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted January 16, 2012 10:45 PM |
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Quote:
1. Many girls get their first period at the age of 8-9, no girl is mentally capable of understanding what it means to have a baby nor being a mom at the age of 9 hence - perserving their innocence untill they can actually comprehend certain things.
My point exactly.
Wait... 9... What the...? Never mind.
@ Cor: Good reading.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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This thread is pages long: 
