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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted January 18, 2012 03:14 PM |
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Quote:
Parents are the best ones to decide what is appropriate to teach their children about sex and when. Not some loony pervert on the school board or some loony pervert in Washington DC.
But what if the parents are loony perverts?
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 18, 2012 03:23 PM |
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Quote:
Parents are the best ones to decide what is appropriate to teach their children about sex and when.
Are parents the best ones to decide what is appropriate to teach their children about history or biology, too?
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted January 18, 2012 03:36 PM |
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How does that homeschooling thing over there work anyway?
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Jabanoss
Promising
Legendary Hero
Property of Nightterror™
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posted January 18, 2012 04:53 PM |
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I wonder what happens to kids who don't have responsible parents. :/
Btw, I really, really love JJ's post. 
He can do miracles that man when he just takes the time.
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"You turn me on Jaba"
- Meroe
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selcy
Famous Hero
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posted January 18, 2012 05:04 PM |
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It is a good job sex ed is taught in school as due to the national curriculum all children in England learn about the same thing.
All I think (and it is my personal opinion as a mother of 3 daughters) is that 10 is too young. My other 2 daughters learnt at the age of 11/12 in secondary school not primary school.
My oldest daughter thinks men are a waste of space based on her Dad, my brother and my brother-in-law. My middle daughter who is 15 is a whole different story but we won't go in to that lol.
It is a sensitive topic that needs a certain kind of teaching unlike other subjects taught at school.
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Mentat
Disgraceful
Known Hero
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posted January 18, 2012 05:07 PM |
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Quote:
It is a sensitive topic that needs a certain kind of teaching unlike other subjects taught at school.
How true! If I must passed our sex ed I felt so embarassed! I felt that I wasn't ready for such deep views of such sensitive things...
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 18, 2012 05:18 PM |
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It's only sensitive because the grown-ups make such a fuss about it. On one hand everything is FULL of it, on the other they make a hell of a fuss to "downplay" it for the children.
But children are not dumb. Quite the contrary. They feel that discrepancy between the general social and cultural fuss about it and parents and relatives downplaying it, and they feel the awkwardness of parents and grown-ups when that area is touched.
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted January 18, 2012 07:36 PM |
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'Everything in its own time'. Ring any bells?
I'm seriously doubting that you're a parent.
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted January 18, 2012 07:44 PM |
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Not to mention the movies & shows these days sure help out on what children watch these days!
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Dreaming of a Better World
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 18, 2012 09:01 PM |
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Quote:
I wonder what happens to kids who don't have responsible parents. :/
Btw, I really, really love JJ's post.
He can do miracles that man when he just takes the time.
Thank you. Since this is a "sensitive issue" I'm really trying.
Quote:
'Everything in its own time'. Ring any bells?
I'm seriously doubting that you're a parent.
Note the bold print? Its OWN time. Not yours. Or mine, for that matter. In this case I firmly believe that everyONE has their own time, and there is no general right or wrong.
Also, you'll have to take my word for being a parent - and pretty long at that.
However, I've also been a kid, and while this was some time ago, my memory is pretty good.
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted January 19, 2012 02:05 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 02:20, 19 Jan 2012.
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Quote:
I wonder what happens to kids who don't have responsible parents. :/
They have a less than optimal learning experience. Unfortunately not all parents are conservatives. 
Quote:
It is a sensitive topic that needs a certain kind of teaching unlike other subjects taught at school.
Exactly.
It is sensitive because it is very important--too important to trust perverts in Washington to make the decisions. Sex should be taught to a child by his parent within the concept of love and morality. Unfortunately someone who thinks right and wrong don't exist can't properly teach his child correctly, to the detriment of the child.
As the father of 4 daughters I think I have some experience in the matter. NONE of my daughters wound up pregnant before marriage. Oh, I've only ever had sex with one person as well-my wife.
Teaching a child, "Oh, it feels good, so yes, you should be experimenting with all kinds of sex" is irresponsible and destructive. But that can be said of most liberal "but I MEANT well" policies.
Quote:
'Everything in its own time'. Ring any bells?
Exactly. And the parents are the best ones to know when the correct time is.
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted January 19, 2012 02:25 AM |
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Edited by Adrius at 02:26, 19 Jan 2012.
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What about biology class? That one includes studying how the human body works and develops as well.
If we skip sex-ed, shouldn't we skip parts of biology class as well? They're very much alike.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 19, 2012 02:39 AM |
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Edited by xerox at 02:40, 19 Jan 2012.
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Quote:
"Oh, it feels good, so yes, you should be experimenting with all kinds of sex"
lol this is not what sex ed is about
I don't know how it is in the US, but here its about diseases, protection and sexuality aswell as debating over some simple moral questions (like should a gay couple be able to adopt children, but everybody agrees with that outside of texas so there's not really a lot to debate there when you live in an atheist country)
the message of the sex ed is not "your goal in life is to snow as many people as possible!!!1"
And the woman who "teaches" us sex ed now is actually also our biology teacher and definately not a perv lol
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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Elodin
Promising
Legendary Hero
Free Thinker
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posted January 19, 2012 03:23 AM |
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Quote:
What about biology class? That one includes studying how the human body works and develops as well.
If we skip sex-ed, shouldn't we skip parts of biology class as well? They're very much alike.
I'm not actually opposed to all sex ed at school. I am opposed to:
1) compulsory sex ed in opposition to the will of the parents.
2) sex ed at young ages.
When I went through school we were presented with a relatively short sex ed class (requiring parental permission) when I started Junior High (7th grade.) Boys and girls were separated and taught by same gender staff members. During 9th grade in biology a more extensive presentation was made.
As I said, for an adequate sex ed teaching, sex, morality, and love really can't be separated.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted January 19, 2012 05:32 AM |
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In my high school sex-ed they spent a whole hour showing us pictures of genital warts and other STDs.
Yeah, that was enough to scare us into celibacy for a good year or two.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted January 19, 2012 06:07 AM |
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Quote:
In my high school sex-ed they spent a whole hour showing us pictures of genital warts and other STDs.
Yeah, that was enough to scare us into celibacy for a good year or two.
Basically the same here. Funny thing is, people say that we are one of the worst high schools sex and drug wise, and yet 90% of the seniors that go to my school are drug and alcohol free, while 70% of our class (on average) graduates celibate.  Maybe it's just the visual effects of the pictures that do it... Elodin, recommend this method to the Texas school board. The ick factor seems to work better than excommunication.
But seriously, the amount of effectiveness this way of teaching has is almost scary. People make sure they are going to be safe if they know that a disease can take a certain prized part of them away (for both males and females). This method would get the attention and piss-the-pants factor for small children as well... but it would just be too early in their poor little lives. The ick factor would make their impressionable little minds fear something that is only natural and that (by all accounts) feels good. Which is why I recommend that wait until of, like, two years where a much greater part of these children are having thoughts like this. Mhmm.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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moonlith
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
If all else fails, use Fiyah!
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posted January 19, 2012 08:18 AM |
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Edited by moonlith at 08:30, 19 Jan 2012.
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Quote:
Parents are the best ones to decide what is appropriate to teach their children about sex and when. Not some loony pervert on the school board or some loony pervert in Washington DC.
10 year olds are simply too immature for sex. The time when come when it is appropriate for a person to have sex, but 10 years old is certainly NOT that time. No amount of saying, "But sex is fun and they are capable of making babies so they should be having sex" will make it right.
Mixing up "Teaching about sex" and "Having sex".
You're a very funny man.
People are way too oversensitive and prudish about this subject.
Quote:
Exactly.
It is sensitive because it is very important--too important to trust perverts in Washington to make the decisions. Sex should be taught to a child by his parent within the concept of love and morality.
Love and morality have nothing to do with sex.
Quote:
Unfortunately someone who thinks right and wrong don't exist can't properly teach his child correctly, to the detriment of the child.
I'm more worried about people like you - who think in black and white and are judgemental like hell (such as calling them "perverts in Washington"), teaching children about sex - or any other subject for that matter. You are -EXTREMELY- biased, and biased people NEVER make good teachers.
Quote:
As the father of 4 daughters I think I have some experience in the matter. NONE of my daughters wound up pregnant before marriage.
Speaking of morality, 4 whole daughters ey? I guess the overpopulation problems of the world are insignificant compared to passing on your genes. Morality for the win!
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 19, 2012 09:20 AM |
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I have to say, I'm really aghast about the way, some people ooze these prentensions of "morality" into their statements, branding differing behaviour as immoral, pervert, irresponsible, destructive - devil's work, if you want to.
Those people ride on such a high horse, judging the behaviour of others in a disgustingly self-righteous way that you can't help but think, how come that if that's the face of morality it makes you wish to slap it?
If we would make this supposedly moral, suggested behaviour exemplary - never spend a thought on things until they are allowed, never test and try out something, instead follow your first intuition when you are allowed to and keep to it till doomsday -, where would us lead that to? Where would we be?
And if that kind of living strategy is a bad behaviour model generally - why would it be a good one where it has the most intimate and profound consequences for your well-being, development, life, ultimate happiness and heritage you leave?
For the US I found these divorce rates:
Under 20 years old 27.6% 11.7%
20 to 24 years old 36.6% 38.8%
25 to 29 years old 16.4% 22.3%
30 to 34 years old 8.5% 11.6%
35 to 39 years old 5.1% 6.5%
The first number is those of women, the second those of men. The absolute number is, depending on source something between 40 and 50% of all marriages are divorced. The numbers above show, that, for women 80% of all divorces take place before they are 30 - and what is a divorce other than the admittance to have married the wrong person?
Also, I think I don't need to start citing sources, how disastrous divorces are (usually) for children.
The attitude that is touted here, is not only offensive in its whole manner - it's, what actually is a lot worse, IRRESPONSIBLE and inviting desaster and tragedy.
INFORMED DECISION - you would think that might be Marsian vocabulary. We have full knowledge of what happens with celibacy before marriage, since this has been the dominating morals from the so-called Victorian age up to the 70s of the last century.
It leads to lot of early, unhappy marriages and lifes, because there is a high probability that a starving person who is supposed to just look, but don't touch before (s)he actually buys is prone to pick something that may look good enough, taste good enough at first bite after buying, since (s)he is starved, but will start showing the flaws and worms afterwards.
You see, *I* don't want to see the children leaving home just because they can't stand it anymore to be patronized and moralized and told what they are supposed to do and not to do, to go on and either try to catch up with everything they may feel they missed or to dive headlong into marriage and children to realize a couple of years later that all was wrong and life sucks.
Instead I want them to be able to make informed decisions, based on true emotions and experience, so they will lead a HAPPY life with HAPPY kids, should they decide to have any.
I've seen a lot - and in my experience a lot of parents are parenting the way they do for one reason more than all the others: they do not want to be ashamed for their children.
In other words, they fear, that this special breed of bigotted, self-righteous, biassed ... people point their finger to them and start visciously gossipping about their children and what bad parents they are to allo this or that. They simply do not want to feel forced to justify their kids OR themselves, so they act accordingly.
I, on the other hand, have no problem with that.
Now, don't get me wrong - I'm, not a lenient father, on the contrary. Lenient doesn't work with education.
But you have to keep in mind the aim of education: INFORMED DECISION.
That means, it's somewhat trying to find the balance between rights and duties, between responsibilities and self-determination, because the aim of education is to make your kid a responsible, confident person.
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meroe
Supreme Hero
Basically Smurfette
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posted January 19, 2012 10:30 AM |
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First off JJ, what makes you think you have a right to dictate to other parents what morality or morals they should be teaching. You have your ways, and other parents have their's. And if their's happen to include a moral code and religious belief that is different to your's, and more often includes a belief that sex before marriage is not to be encouraged (some outright outlawed), that is of no concern to you.
You obviously have your own, and everyone else who has posted here has their's. Which again is why it is important for parents to teach their own children sex education and should they wish and agree to having their child taught sex ed. later at school, is their decision alone.
Also no one here would want to keep their children ignorant and therefore negatively affect their adult life. But they do want to protect them from other's people's opinions regarding sex ed. and highly liberal Governmental ideology (which changes every term), when the children are very young and highly impressionable.
What I have noticed about highly liberal ideology is that it relishes at trampling on other's less liberal beliefs. It cares nothing for traditional values, morals, and certainly religious beliefs. And I for one am not prepared to have that ideology bashed into my children's head for the sake of your comfort. Neither will my children grow up ignorant of the facts. I am perfectly capable of educating my children regarding this and many more matters. And as their parent it will be totally my right to do so, otherwise what is the point of my becoming a parent in the first place. And I take offense when you insinuate that because I don't hold the same ideology as you, that somehow myself and other's here do not have a well-balanced outlook or that we are somehow biased, bigotted and self righteous and unlikely to have an INFORMED DECISION. Especially when you yourself have exhibited these traits throughout this conversation.
To be succinct here, I simply stated that I believe that sex ed. while very young at school (from ages 5-12) is too young. You should be teaching your own children at home, rather than leaving it to the ideology of someone else.
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Meroe is definetely out, sweet
as she sounds sometimes, she'd
definetely castrate you with a
rusted razror and forcefeed
your genitals to you in a
blink of an eye - Kipshasz
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted January 19, 2012 11:02 AM |
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You chose, however, not to answer Corribus's question(s), though, which ultimately makes your whole cause ... doubtful.
Also, you completely misunderstand who is insinuating whome here. Who is calling the other opinion immoral, pervert and so on - based on very questionable and certainly subjective beiefs and opinions, like in the Middle Ages?
Do you really think you are above criticism, when your whole grounds of arguing is based on some questionable morals, the results of which are all too known, when on the other hand you throw around with judgemental moral terms that brand eveyone with a differing opinion as bad parent with doubtful morals, including school classes and teachers?
EDIT: Ok, let me add another constructive twist and ask a question:
You said, wait... Quote:
Also partly that home sex. ed. will include teaching and explaining to your own children that sex before 16/18 is not something you want them to do, as they will still have schooling etc etc and that your expectations are that they at least respect your wishes for their own good
So let's assume one of your daughters is still below the age you want her to have sex, whether that's 16 or 18, and she comes to you asking about contraceptives, making you somewhat suspicious.
For whatever reason, you explain to her again that you don't want it because it wouldn't be good for her and you expect her to respect that for her own good and so on.
Now she asks you a question: How do you know?
What will you answer?
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This thread is pages long: 
