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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted September 13, 2008 05:38 PM |
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I haven't played Sylvan in TOTE other than one test game.
Warding arrow will set back a target's ATB (I don't know what the value is), and doesn't it have a chance to trigger with each shot?
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted September 13, 2008 05:41 PM |
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Quote:
In the description it says that it does, and it's not "corrected" by the Fan Manual.
Yea that had me confused because I never remembered them stunning, but I saw the description when I was comparing their stats and trusted it over me 
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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tann_141
Known Hero
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posted September 13, 2008 06:06 PM |
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warding arrow can save your butt sometimes... delaying a heavy hitter on the ATB bar may give you a chance to block them with a fodder unit... so MH do have their uses (even if they are underpowered in terms of damage output)
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted September 13, 2008 07:10 PM |
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Elvin or somebody needs to dig up how much the warding arrow will set back a units ATB. We need to give Master Hunter's every bit of credit we can, they're counting on us!
Seriously though, if it sets it back a decent amount, then with soldier's luck, couldn't Master Hunter's rival arcane archers in usefulness? (plz don't accuse me of noobness for daring to ask this question)
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted September 13, 2008 07:12 PM |
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I think it was only a 0.2 ATB reduction per trigger (it can trigger two times to a total of 0.4 ATB reduction - it's still pathetic compared to, let's say, Bash, so MH is still far inferior to AA)
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broadstrong
Promising
Known Hero
Level 20 Vassal of Light
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posted September 13, 2008 07:20 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
In the description it says that it does, and it's not "corrected" by the Fan Manual.
Yea that had me confused because I never remembered them stunning, but I saw the description when I was comparing their stats and trusted it over me
If this is the case, it is another change item for Sfidanza to take note for fan manual v3.1, I also never saw force arrow stunning (and even the moving back occurs quite rarely)
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted September 13, 2008 07:22 PM |
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-0.2 ATB = 20% reduction right?
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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tann_141
Known Hero
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posted September 13, 2008 07:37 PM |
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so blizzardboy.. how about that game 
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted September 13, 2008 07:42 PM |
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If you have a soldier's luck, then statistically, you're going to get at least 1 warding arrow per duo of shots from the master hunters. So take that graph, and reduce the arcane archer's damage output by the -0.2 ATB (essentially -20% turn activity). That's not including the abstract utility of being able to hit certain units on the initiative bar to try to get another unit to go before them.
Therefore, I conclude that arcane archer's are weaker than blind peasants.
I know I know... arcane archer's are still overall better. But MH aren't rubbish. I mean, not taking into account warding arrow just isn't fair 
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted September 13, 2008 07:44 PM |
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Quote:
so blizzardboy.. how about that game
I'm in channel Standard 1
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 13, 2008 08:17 PM |
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They ARE rubbish compared to arcanes. What's the point of stunning when you can totally destroy a stack? And act first too. Simple reality check.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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adon
Known Hero
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posted September 13, 2008 08:19 PM |
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Quote:
If this is the case, it is another change item for Sfidanza to take note for fan manual v3.1, I also never saw force arrow stunning (and even the moving back occurs quite rarely)
In 3.1 I see the force arrow affect going off all the time, even without soldier's luck. Anecdotal but it seems a lot more prevalent.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 13, 2008 08:39 PM |
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Force arrow never stuns.. That's all it does, push things back.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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tann_141
Known Hero
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posted September 13, 2008 11:40 PM |
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well either way.... AA are way better than MH... but they arent unbeatable
btw.. nice games blizzardboy... both were really close.. and that 1st battle on dragon hill... i thought i was going to be slaughtered.. turns out i wasnt slaughtered THAT bad
and the second battle... well.. thats the power of maulers for you
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted September 14, 2008 05:06 AM |
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Quote:
well either way.... AA are way better than MH... but they arent unbeatable
btw.. nice games blizzardboy... both were really close.. and that 1st battle on dragon hill... i thought i was going to be slaughtered.. turns out i wasnt slaughtered THAT bad
and the second battle... well.. thats the power of maulers for you
Yea those were some nice matches. My respect for maulers has increased.
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Cleave
Promising
Famous Hero
Raging Blood
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posted September 14, 2008 01:24 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
well either way.... AA are way better than MH... but they arent unbeatable
btw.. nice games blizzardboy... both were really close.. and that 1st battle on dragon hill... i thought i was going to be slaughtered.. turns out i wasnt slaughtered THAT bad
and the second battle... well.. thats the power of maulers for you
Yea those were some nice matches. My respect for maulers has increased.
How does this bear any relation with the topic at hand? Guys you should really use the HC Messenger or whatever.
Quote:
Let me understand this: those that say AA's are fine because they are fragile and have counters imply that that Master Hunters are uber underpowered, no? Then how come you didn't complain about them before?
I think nobody is going to praise Master Hunters for their resilience either. Both upgrades are pretty fragile. The Master Hunters are less uber that's for sure.
Doomforge's post (a few pages ago) summed it rather well with his neat graph. Without the Unicorn Horn Bow, Master Hunters are not a viable alternative.
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13 Heroes
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baklajan
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 22, 2008 01:37 PM |
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Have you ever tried staging a fight between 7 stacks of 100 AA and 7 stacks of 100 MH each? Statistics should bring about the truth.
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radar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
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posted September 22, 2008 03:16 PM |
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IMO they should half only natural creature's defence, without hero or spell bonus.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 22, 2008 03:25 PM |
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As well as make initiative 10, d'uh.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Nebdar
Promising
Supreme Hero
Generation N
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posted September 26, 2008 08:21 AM |
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Edited by Nebdar at 08:23, 26 Sep 2008.
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Arcane Archer Master Hunter AA Should be
Atk: 6 5 6
Def: 5 4 5
Dmg: 8-9 5-8 7-8
Inn: 11 10 10
Spd: 5 5 5
Hlt: 14 14 14
Sht: 16 16 12
Abilit: Shooter Shooter
Force Arrow Double-Shot
No Range Pen. Warding Arrows
Is that balanced
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