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espen15
Famous Hero
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posted July 20, 2008 01:39 PM |
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Quote:
Removing Force Arrow will weaken AA a lot, and Master Hunter will be better by that time.
it won´t make arcanes weaker than the the master hunters(look stats) then they would be equal the other thingy is that most of the people likes to use advantage of overpowered aa in ubi.com while playing standard map the most known strategy is played with ossir and just shoot and kill everybody and now playing is just one shooting contest towards another while with master hunters things are just ok.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 20, 2008 04:51 PM |
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Quote:
But I don't like the idea that the defense reduction should happen only when Force Arrow triggers, because it'll be too random (with huge effect). I think it should trigger all the time, but lower it to 10% reduction or something (and lower initiative by 1 of course). Maybe even the damage should be reduced a little
True; We can balance them by simply reducing the value of def reduction. (And I still think equalizing thier initiative is a must). However, a stack with constant 10% def reduction doesn't mean it's a better solution, it's just a different approach 
Secondary effects that have a chance of triggering are associated with the HP difference between stacks. AAs aren't the most "healthy" pack around, so it would not trigger against low tier units - having usually much more HP in total - but would trigger against lvl 6-7 ones, which have lower HP totals. So AAs would be better against high tier units, weaker against lower - I think it's a good idea, actually 
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 26, 2008 09:58 PM |
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Quote:
Who even voted no on this poll? elvin?
LMAO what kind of person do you take me for?  They aren't even my favourite unit.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted July 26, 2008 10:03 PM |
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I'm pretty sure Atheist did, but where the other 6? 
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted July 26, 2008 10:23 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Who even voted no on this poll? elvin?
LMAO what kind of person do you take me for? They aren't even my favourite unit.
Maybe he was deceived by your avatar
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espen15
Famous Hero
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posted July 27, 2008 12:13 AM |
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Quote:
arcane archers are ridiculously overpowered. Too much init for a t3 ranged unit. No ranged unit should have that much init, save maybe titans since they're t7. Force arrow+no range penalty is a big problem, but honestly I think archers biggest source of overpoweredness is their init. If they had 8 init like archers it'd give you way more time to counter them. But even if you nerfed force arrow and range penalty they'd still go before most every unit and they'd still be perfect for hit and run attacks. I've seen 3 AA kill 30 archers with one attack, and that same stack kill 3 knights.
They are by far the most overpowered unit in the game, nothing even comes close to them. Who even voted no on this poll? elvin? Arcane archers are by far the biggest balance issue in this poorly balanced game. Too bad the fans convinced nival to focus on single instead of multi player. The campaigns suck anyway.
Some part of your story is correct, nival didn´t focus on multiplayer, but all good games must have greater online playing opportunity, like diablo 2, good in online and see see also good in single player.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 27, 2008 10:42 AM |
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Diablo2? Uhhh. Dupes, bots, bugs, hacks, total imbalance, hammerdin owning everything in PvM (What's the point of playing other class if this is the one that can do anythin.. -_-), PvP limited to several builds (fire sorc, light sorc, hammer, smiter, bone nec, wind dru.. hmm, plus some minor ones, there), every possible noob under the sun running in enigma.. right. I'd say diablo 2 is a total failure when it comes to balance. Not a good example ;P
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espen15
Famous Hero
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posted July 27, 2008 11:12 AM |
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Quote:
Diablo2? Uhhh. Dupes, bots, bugs, hacks, total imbalance, hammerdin owning everything in PvM (What's the point of playing other class if this is the one that can do anythin.. -_-), PvP limited to several builds (fire sorc, light sorc, hammer, smiter, bone nec, wind dru.. hmm, plus some minor ones, there), every possible noob under the sun running in enigma.. right. I'd say diablo 2 is a total failure when it comes to balance. Not a good example ;P
Hammerdin owns but as also frozen orb, frenzy, bone spear, lightning traps and hurricane. Total failure!!!!!! You say that only because you hate that game.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 27, 2008 11:55 AM |
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You are ridiculous. I've played it for many years and enjoyed it - I must have been a masochist to enjoy a game I hated. Don't jump to conclusions - you fail at it. Badly.
And saying hammers are equal to frozen orb, frenzy, bone spear prove you know pretty little about that game. Sorry, no bonus.
If you want me to explain why hammerdin is imbalanced, feel free to ask .
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 27, 2008 12:05 PM |
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Not to sound biased but Doomforge has proven to know a few things about balance unlike others. Let's leave it at that.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 27, 2008 12:21 PM |
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Hey, thanks for the support, Elvin
Hope you don't mind a bit of OT, guys: Let me explain why hammerdins are overpowered compared to, say, spear necro.
1. Their raw damage is way superior (17k compared to 5k at most). Not to mention it also has a +50% bonus against demons and undead, which pretty much cover 90% of the monsters in this game. 25k damage, rightyy o, balanced. While javazons can score 120k against big monsters with their charged strike, they are hopeless against unbreakable lightning immunes at games with more than one player. And they suffer mana problems. And they are fragile. And they can't do uber tristram alone. Go figure the rest.
2. They ignore all resistances and immunities of demons and undead, which is totally ridiculous (other classes have to invest in costly gear or spend many skill points in order to reach PART of the effect hammerdins receive effortlessly - not to mention they break ANY demon/undead immunity, no matter if its 180 or 200, while other classes have to resort to only two things that can remove immunity - lower resist curse (necros only - there are wands but they provide level 3 LR at most which gives little resist reduction) and conviction (granted by infinity, but nly level 12 meaning it gives -80%) - but all those things have only 1/5 effect when breaking immunity, so if you meet a monster that has his resistance equal to 112 or higher, he cannot be damaged, infinity or not.
3. Their hammer targets a very wide area, while it takes some effort to learn how to use it effectively, its infinitely better than bone spear, which has a very narrow projectile, effectively unable to hit monsters if they don't stand in a line - and I mean LINE, two pixels farther and it won't hit.
4. They have 15k+ armor and over 3500 life with relatively CHEAP gear, without the ridiculously expensive 40 life skillers, something your common bone nec can only dream about.
5. They have a skill that makes their shields block at max efficiency at pretty low DEX (137 for zaka, 167 for spirit ST) while your poor NEC has to put something like 300 points to achieve the same effect, making the gap between his and hammerdin's life even bigger (not to mention he has slower block rate)
6. Hammerdins have countless utility auras that make them perfect in any situation: free life/mana restoring from redemption, curse cleansing, salvation for uber tristram
7. They can do ubers with their hammers, alone - and if you think it's too hard, you can transform them into powerful smiters by putting 1 point into fana and swapping your gear for ultra-cheap crushing blow granting items, like crushflange - and voila, they are fastest and most reliable uber-killers around)
8. They are relatively cheap - a hammerdin with poor equipment will prevail in places where bone nec will simply die.
Those are just a fraction of the imbalance. If you look at the game closely, you will see that the hammerdin is pretty much superior to any other character in terms of survivability, raw damage and reliability - and it's so obvious that it makes me wonder why hammerdins got BUFFED, not nerfed in latest patches. They are one of many reasons I quit playing d2 forever.
Oh, and one more thing - 90% bnet players are hammerdins for a reason.
Blizzard either doesn't know, or doesn't care for d2's balance, as you see, and it's JUST one thing - an overpowered character. I haven't covered other imbalances related to economy, drop system, flawed PvP - believe me, d2 has nearly no balance at all.
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radar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Castle/Haven player
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posted July 27, 2008 12:54 PM |
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Quote:
Thread: Arcane archers overpowered
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 27, 2008 01:17 PM |
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Stop spamming radar 
Anyways an offtopic post or two are ok, I'd mind only if I saw the conversation continuing.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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espen15
Famous Hero
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posted July 27, 2008 02:47 PM |
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I know that blessed hammer is good, but even with that paladin loses to sorceress against 1 vs 1 good teleport thunder storm and frozen orb and paladin is dead meat, i know that because i ´ ve played online not battle.net. about arcane archers, they are perfect in making custom duel preset. Just put all stats to attack and with init iative arties , intiative were 14 and staff of the nether world will reduce enemy´s intiative, also add attack arties Damage increase to 10-12, make all stacks arcane archers and then go ubi.com create server with custom presets and kill every body.It works
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted July 27, 2008 04:45 PM |
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Custom duel sucks, believe me. All you have to do is take a warlock, get all slots as deep hydras, get only power/knowledge and spam empowered armageddon. There are many cheap combinations.
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 27, 2008 04:53 PM |
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lol I made a warlock. empowered fireball with ignite. 900 damage + 80% damage with elemental chain + warlock luck and he ignores 75% of the magic resistance. nice. I could have given him armaggeddon of course, but it seemed too cheap
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espen15
Famous Hero
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posted July 27, 2008 11:11 PM |
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You can create knight with all stacks imperial griffin int. arties increase sp and kw, and armageddon-masscare
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grantsin11
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 28, 2008 05:24 AM |
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Arcane Hunters are way better than Master Hunters. They have better attack, defence, damage range, and initiative. And the no range penalty is pretty nice too.
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Hell is empty and all the devils are here.
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Siyana
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 29, 2008 06:58 PM |
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No range penalty is awesome 
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Atlas199
Tavern Dweller
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posted July 29, 2008 07:16 PM |
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sylvan archers do need a fix
master hunters need to be buffed to arcane archer level.
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This thread is pages long: 
