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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted February 27, 2012 01:41 PM |
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"No enemy retaliation" on any Inferno creature, but especially on the dogs comes with the disadvantage also, that the gated stack won't be able to steal a retaliation.
So to make that viable, "No enemy retliation" should not be a passive ability, but an active one, either with a cooldown time or a number of charges, that would have to be activated like the Kappa jump. Might be given instead of "Voracious".
Also a very valid point. Maybe easiest way is indeed to stick to the Unlimited Retaliations coupled with increased growth.
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What will happen now?
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seingeist
Promising
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 27, 2012 02:11 PM |
bonus applied by alcibiades on 28 Feb 2012. |
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Also a very valid point. Maybe easiest way is indeed to stick to the Unlimited Retaliations coupled with increased growth.
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With Cerberi, the problem is more a psychological one: there are so very few to begin with, and you don't get many compared with the rest. Also, if you battle something really solid, when that solid hitter hits, it will be Cerberi, everyone's favorite target, and a lucky hit may make a full recovery impossible (Inferno being the only faction that is missing an immediate Healing effect).
For the rest - I mean, an opponent will hit something, and Cerberi ARE the priority target. It makes no sense to make them a unit so good they can shrug off the full and undivided attention of the opposition. Things would look different, if the AI had other target priorities, but with the AI concentrating its efforts, the problem is the missing Heal spell more than any supa-dupa ability of the doggies.
This is also right on target.
Statistically, the Cerberi are in with a shout for strongest Cores in the game (though not most tactically useful or synergistic with team). Best damage of any Core, near-best cumulative defense score, best movement, near-best Luck, an AoE attack, unlimited retaliation, and a free 20% damage buff against units that hurt it. Even their HP isn't awful; it's "mediocre" at worst. This is precisely why they're such a high-priority target by the AI. Of course, Inferno's problem in that regard is that, unlike other high-priority targets such as the Liches or Griffins, the dogs cannot be recovered easily en masse due to the inherent shortcomings of the faction's recovery options. The result is large irretrievable losses of the dogs, which really gets into players' heads. 
In any case, however, the lack of recovery is not the only problem there. As has been somewhat demonstrated by the growth-calculation tables above, even the strongest unit can be easily overcome by disproportionately more of a weaker unit. Best direct comparison here are the Praetorians, who have the lowest damage of any Core. However, their growth is so ridiculously good that a week's worth of them (excluding FF bonuses) only averages 7.5 fewer damage points per hit than the same week's worth of Cerberi (and the human-stack has more than double the HP). The individual damage of the Cerberi as a unit is the best (Core) in the game; the damage*growth is lower-than-average, and the growth*HP is the lowest of any unit in the game.
We need more dogs. I lean towards +2/week for HH and Cerb.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted February 28, 2012 07:09 AM |
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@Seingeist -> You hit the nail on the head, these are the reasons the dogs are high priority targets....agree with giving them more weekly growth (or maybe an inherent life drain ability like the vamps)
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted February 28, 2012 09:02 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 09:07, 28 Feb 2012.
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We need more dogs. I lean towards +2/week for HH and Cerb.
More like +4 or +2 with increased HP (something like 26 and 32 respectively). Unlike the Praetorian and, in fact, all other Cores, the Cerberus is a big creature which automatically makes it hard to defend or use for selective offence (you can't block shooters with it if the opponent has more than 2 brain/binomial cells) so its current rather limited tactical potential needs more brute force to become exploitable.
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted February 28, 2012 04:08 PM |
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imo, statistically, Praetorian growth is not a good comparison because I usually don't have enough gold to buy them all (don't need to either) & all they do is just defend & never attack anyway (their defence is about as good as sun crusader when they defend only).
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seingeist
Promising
Adventuring Hero
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posted February 28, 2012 06:55 PM |
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More like +4 or +2 with increased HP (something like 26 and 32 respectively). Unlike the Praetorian and, in fact, all other Cores, the Cerberus is a big creature which automatically makes it hard to defend or use for selective offence (you can't block shooters with it if the opponent has more than 2 brain/binomial cells) so its current rather limited tactical potential needs more brute force to become exploitable.
+4 is completely overkill; I've been looking at all of the Cores very closely, and even +2 for both dogs ends up rendering them a somewhat OP stack relative to the other Cores, which I'm willing to tolerate since Inferno needs the help.
I can elaborate; +2 would give the dogs 7/10 (HH/Cerb) growth. Compare this to Succubus (7/11), Sister (7/11), Ghost (6/10), Ghoul (6/9), Coral Priestess (7/11), Mauler (5/8 - like the dogs now), and Harpy (7/10). While there can be some debate on all of these units with regard to their tactical or synergistic value relative to the dogs, there can be very little argument about their attributes: the dogs simply are more powerful than ALL of these units, with the possible exception of the Mauler/Crusher (great damage, best Core HP, double-attack special, OK defense). The Ghouls are extremely strong also, but I wouldn't call them better than the dogs, and you'd be receiving fewer of them instead of the same amount.
If all of those above units pulled the same Aggro that the dogs do, they would drop like flies as well (even though the associated factions might be able to recover them much more easily).
Regarding giving the dogs more HP, their unit HP isn't really a problem; it's their weekly stack HP, which is the lowest in the game. HP is really the only attribute of the dogs' that isn't excellent, and as I said above, it isn't even awful, it's mediocre. If we buffed the dogs' HP, they'd be the only Core in the game (probably the only unit, actually) that doesn't have a single mediocre attribute to balance out their strong points. I think that would be cheesily OP. In any case, I wouldn't want to see their HP buffed more than +1 or +2, if at all.
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imo, statistically, Praetorian growth is not a good comparison because I usually don't have enough gold to buy them all (don't need to either) & all they do is just defend & never attack anyway (their defence is about as good as sun crusader when they defend only).
I only used Praetorians in the example because they have literally the lowest average damage, next to Cerberi who have literally the highest. Growth is such a big factor that it almost mitigates the gulf between damage extremes.
In fact, other examples are even better to use because many Cores that look less damaging on paper than Cerberi end up doing more damage in their weekly stack: Vestals, Demented, Lilim, Ghouls, and Furies all do more damage per hit (even Skeletal Spearmen at the ideal range). Obviously, Crushers do more damage as well if you count their double attack, but I deliberately try to leave abilities out of it because it makes comparison more difficult.
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted February 28, 2012 07:44 PM |
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There's something to be said to the fact that if the entirety of the world is targeting you, then you dying should not be a surprise, ie everyone is attacking the dogs, them dying is normal. If you give them enough stats to resist the entire world auto-targeting them, they would certainly become OP. Increasing growth might be a good solution. I still like the no-retaliation better, but we could maybe do both too.
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In fact, other examples are even better to use because many Cores that look less damaging on paper than Cerberi end up doing more damage in their weekly stack: Vestals, Demented, Lilim, Ghouls, and Furies all do more damage per hit (even Skeletal Spearmen at the ideal range). Obviously, Crushers do more damage as well if you count their double attack, but I deliberately try to leave abilities out of it because it makes comparison more difficult.
Vestals and lilims do magic damage, and vestals do magic damage that gets a bonus on a ton of creatures too. Also vestals have something of a no-retaliation with their pacification, and lilims are full range attackers. Ghosts also tend to do a lot of damage, especially if you count the lich's debuff. But even without it, magic damage tends to do better (at least I get the feeling that magic resistance tends to generally not be as high for most creatures). And nobody ever attacks demented, so when you leave them alone (ie they don't die too much) for a few turns, and they can accumulate that attack boost (that they steal from the ennemy), and that plus relatively high numbers can make them somewhat useful/annoying on the long term of a battle.
Also, that effective range of the skeletons is what, 2 range I think?
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted February 28, 2012 08:02 PM |
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Quote:
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More like +4 or +2 with increased HP (something like 26 and 32 respectively). Unlike the Praetorian and, in fact, all other Cores, the Cerberus is a big creature which automatically makes it hard to defend or use for selective offence (you can't block shooters with it if the opponent has more than 2 brain/binomial cells) so its current rather limited tactical potential needs more brute force to become exploitable.
+4 is completely overkill; I've been looking at all of the Cores very closely, and even +2 for both dogs ends up rendering them a somewhat OP stack relative to the other Cores, which I'm willing to tolerate since Inferno needs the help.
I can elaborate; +2 would give the dogs 7/10 (HH/Cerb) growth. Compare this to Succubus (7/11), Sister (7/11), Ghost (6/10), Ghoul (6/9), Coral Priestess (7/11), Mauler (5/8 - like the dogs now), and Harpy (7/10). While there can be some debate on all of these units with regard to their tactical or synergistic value relative to the dogs, there can be very little argument about their attributes: the dogs simply are more powerful than ALL of these units, with the possible exception of the Mauler/Crusher (great damage, best Core HP, double-attack special, OK defense). The Ghouls are extremely strong also, but I wouldn't call them better than the dogs, and you'd be receiving fewer of them instead of the same amount.
If all of those above units pulled the same Aggro that the dogs do, they would drop like flies as well (even though the associated factions might be able to recover them much more easily).
Regarding giving the dogs more HP, their unit HP isn't really a problem; it's their weekly stack HP, which is the lowest in the game. HP is really the only attribute of the dogs' that isn't excellent, and as I said above, it isn't even awful, it's mediocre. If we buffed the dogs' HP, they'd be the only Core in the game (probably the only unit, actually) that doesn't have a single mediocre attribute to balance out their strong points. I think that would be cheesily OP. In any case, I wouldn't want to see their HP buffed more than +1 or +2, if at all
The digits are not everything you know. The size of the dogs is a flaw, not an advantage, at least until they make their AoE attack work as it should (if they do it at all) and that alone demotes the dogs to a sub-Core which doesn't have enough raw power to climb back to Core. Apart from being unable to block most of the shooters and very easy to target, it also takes too much space and makes the initial unit placement more difficult once you get your entire army on the field (Inferno is the only faction with 4 big creatures). I'll agree with +2 without further buffs only if they are reduced to small creatures.
As for their abilities - most of them are hardly spectacular. Unlimited Retaliation is wasted on them until the stack receives enough staying power, the AoE attack is difficult to use against a smart opponent and the +20% damage against offenders isn't that powerful either. Being demons, they are getting slaughtered en masses by Glories and Vestals (and eventually Light Elementals) so +2 growth won't improve the picture much, let alone be OP.
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted February 29, 2012 02:18 PM |
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imo, statistically, Praetorian growth is not a good comparison because I usually don't have enough gold to buy them all (don't need to either) & all they do is just defend & never attack anyway (their defence is about as good as sun crusader when they defend only).
I only used Praetorians in the example because they have literally the lowest average damage, next to Cerberi who have literally the highest. Growth is such a big factor that it almost mitigates the gulf between damage extremes...
@seingeist, I'm all for comparing apples with apples but Praetorian is an orange here
and those dmg/hp/whatever should take into account that on many ubi maps so far, there are external dwelling which can be boosted by like 2 heroes with Architect I.
So, imo, in a realistic situation so far, my question is how does cores compare when growth also includes 1 x external core creatures dwelling & 2 secondary heroes with Architect I? [since in first week, I hire 2 secondary heroes to get enough army to creep entire week without a big immediate need to add more army from dwellings]
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus 
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einomida
Known Hero
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posted February 29, 2012 07:34 PM |
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Edited by einomida at 19:38, 29 Feb 2012.
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@seingeist, I'm all for comparing apples with apples but Praetorian is an orange here
That's the whole point. It's like this - apples are cheaper than oranges and taste better. Why choose oranges?
It would make sense if that orange had an important role in the army's synergy (H5 Goblins), or serve purpose outside of combat/other units make up for one unit's shortcomings (H5 Peasant), but that's not the case.
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DoubleDeck
Promising
Legendary Hero
Look into my eyes...
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posted March 01, 2012 07:06 AM |
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The orange represents the woman.
The apple represents the man. To be more specific, a red apple.
A green apple represents a boy. He is ripe and hard. A boy thinks with his sexuality. He is green and he is strong, and he thinks that he is going to be that way all the time. Unfortunetaly, sometimes a man has a little green mixed up in the red apple, he'll be old on the outside but a little boy on the inside.
The purpose of the apple is to say that men are a covering. Science teaches us that the nutrients and the vitamins is in the skin of the apple, but the skin of the apple is not placed upon the apple for that purpose. The skin is there to cover the meat of the apple. The meat of the apple is to quench your thirst and satisfy your hunger, but that is not the full purpose of the meat of the apple. The meat is to hold the core of the apple. The core of the apple is to hold the seed, which means the whole purpose of an apple is to cover the seed. So men are supposed to be covering, they are to provide stability, strength and economical stability and correction for the woman.
The process an apple goes through is long: it goes through three to eight washings, then shipped off to the grocery store. Upon being shipped, the apple becomes dull in colour, so apple wax is applied to it to shine it up. Alot of times, men have to be prepped and ready, and made to be ready.
Whereas the orange is plucked from the tree in it's most beautiful form. See women are born ready. Men have to get ready.
The orange also has a layer of skin. The layer is there to protect her. Unlike the man, he is just a whole piece of fruit. Inside of him there are no sections. In fact you cannot peal a man. If you are going to get inside a man, you are going to have to cut him. He is just a whole piece with some seed inside, seed waiting to be released.
The orange is different. If you touch, hold and squeeze an orange, it's scent is released and you pick up a woman's scent and you get her scent on you. A woman has the ability to spray men. In spraying men, she'll have men attracted to her, and she won't even know why he's attracted to her.
Her covering is given to her to protect the inside of her because of you peal her, you'll find that inside of her are many, many sections. She is not like the man, she can be pealed and pealing happens to her when she enters into conversations, when she is being talked to, when you're saying things that she needs to hear, when she's been broken and hurt and has had babies out of wedlock and feels that her life is all messed up. Constantly, she is being pealed by the things that men are speaking of and saying and suddenly she finds out that she is walking around and is completely pealed. She doesn't notice that her covering is hanging off and laying on the side of the road and this man has found a way to get into her and she doesn't know how he got in there. She is an emotional being with many different compartments to her. She has to know how to compartmentalize. She must still know how to take care of the children, although she's hurt. She has to know how to bounce back from situations and circumstances. Women have a way of not dealing with something right now, because they want to deal with something else.
Men are apples, women are oranges.
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted March 01, 2012 07:09 AM |
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Quote:
It would make sense if that orange had an important role in the army's synergy (H5 Goblins), or serve purpose outside of combat/other units make up for one unit's shortcomings (H5 Peasant), but that's not the case.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree on that, whether you were talking about praetorians or cerberii. I imagine you were talking about cerberii though. The praetorians are rarely mentioned as a useless unit after all.
The demons rush in and try to deal enough damage so that the ennemy cannot recover (least that's how I see them, see the community patch project thread for my explanation on it). Having very good damage, and AoE damage to boot, has important synergy in that whole scheme, and even the fact that they'll die very quickly doesn't quite manage to change that, because the initial impact is so important. So yeah, cerberii definitely have a role to play.
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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SKPRIMUS
Promising
Supreme Hero
The One and the Prime
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posted March 01, 2012 12:35 PM |
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yeah I think einomida has mixed up oranges with apples
to explain it in a long-winded manner:
There's no point even comparing Praetorian dmg x growth with Cerebri because Praetorian dmg can still be halved for all I care and I would still use them because of the primary function of taking damage away from other adjacent allies with extra 20% reduction.
still waiting on that comparison with external core dwelling & 2 secondaries with Architect I
____________
Hope defeats despair - "a blatant clue"
too many idiots in VW
"to lose is to win, and he who wins shall lose"
bashing orcus
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einomida
Known Hero
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posted March 01, 2012 02:53 PM |
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I haven't played H6 myself (only the demo) so I'm talking from forum experience.
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It would make sense if that orange had an important role in the army's synergy (H5 Goblins), or serve purpose outside of combat/other units make up for one unit's shortcomings (H5 Peasant), but that's not the case.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree on that, whether you were talking about praetorians or cerberii. I imagine you were talking about cerberii though. The praetorians are rarely mentioned as a useless unit after all.
The demons rush in and try to deal enough damage so that the ennemy cannot recover (least that's how I see them, see the community patch project thread for my explanation on it). Having very good damage, and AoE damage to boot, has important synergy in that whole scheme, and even the fact that they'll die very quickly doesn't quite manage to change that, because the initial impact is so important. So yeah, cerberii definitely have a role to play.
This is indeed what the Cerberi are meant to do, yet what I've heard it seems they don't accomplish that. Because the dmg-HP ratio in H6 is a lot different than it was in H5 the initial impact of a charging unit wont decide the outcome of the match as much, especially since they wont survive enough to actually keep the damage going.
Plus it doesn't even make sense from Inferno's racial standpoint where rushing in and sacrificing potential gating material is something you don't want to do.
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There's no point even comparing Praetorian dmg x growth with Cerebri because Praetorian dmg can still be halved for all I care and I would still use them because of the primary function of taking damage away from other adjacent allies with extra 20% reduction.
But this is not about Praetorians doing too much damage, it's about Cerberi doing too little. And comparing the dmg/week of a super defense unit with a super charging unit and seeing the difference is almost nonexistent is exactly how you can conclude something is amiss.
Heck I could even say just charge with Praetorians because they do same damage as Cerberi and don't die as quick (joke ofc).
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted March 01, 2012 03:25 PM |
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This is indeed what the Cerberi are meant to do, yet what I've heard it seems they don't accomplish that. Because the dmg-HP ratio in H6 is a lot different than it was in H5 the initial impact of a charging unit wont decide the outcome of the match as much, especially since they wont survive enough to actually keep the damage going.
Plus it doesn't even make sense from Inferno's racial standpoint where rushing in and sacrificing potential gating material is something you don't want to do.
Yes, that's why tank units were invented. Necros don't have one, but they've got the best healing. Orcs I believe don't have one (what do jaguars do again, outside of charging?), but their units are overall rather buffed. The kensei locks down an ennemy unit, preferably one with good damage. The praetorians take the heat off of the units around them. The ravagers do the same thing. Except that they don't. And that is the problem here, not the cerberii. Ravagers are very costly, very few, and don't take damage that well for tank units. I don't mind personnally that they don't take damage that well, if only they were more accessible. But really, in a world where they do their job, the ravagers divert some heat off the cerberi (that you keep close to them), buying them time to do their thing. Keep in mind that you are right up in their face, too. Their manoeuvering space is extremely limited, even if they want to focus down certain units, they won't necessarily be able to. Most likely, for the first few turns, the attacks on the cerberi would come from the units very close to it. If you keep the ravager close, they're not taking those hits, the ravagers are.
Also, it might be counter-intuitive, but gating actually works well with it. If you break it down, the charge happens. Ravagers most likely go down first, in a couple turns or maybe more if you're lucky. The doggies follow suit, again a couple turns max, if not one more turn. The rest has been alive for 3 turns already, 3 turns of gating (assuming you have enough destiny to get the gating even on the first turn. In the video I did). And the rest, while having taken some hits, is relatively healthy, and have been piling up the bodies on the other side, with gating. (others being demented, tormentors and pitlords). And the gating happens fast. So at that point, say turn 3, 2 of your units are down, but you got 2 additionnal stacks up and 1 more coming up, and you actually have more stacks than you charged up with (5-6 as opposed to 5). It keeps the dogpile alive. Failed at it in the video, but that's what it does.
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 01, 2012 04:23 PM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 16:24, 01 Mar 2012.
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Orcs I believe don't have one (what do jaguars do again, outside of charging?), but their units are overall rather buffed.
You serious? Apart from having the best initiative overall with their racial (i.e. highly likely that most of their units will act before the majority of yours), the Orcs have at least four creatures for immediate heavy damage-dealing. The Panther Warriors, the Furies and the Enraged Cyclopes can get to the enemy first line in one turn and the Centaurs have a no range penalty shot. Inferno is badly outperformed when it comes to first strike against Stronghold (as are the rest of the factions, save Sanctuary to an extent).
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Most likely, for the first few turns, the attacks on the cerberi would come from the units very close to it. If you keep the ravager close, they're not taking those hits, the ravagers are.
No, they aren't. Taunting presence needs the attacker to come in the vicinity of the Ravagers, do what it was told to do and then triggers. So the creatures next to the Ravagers have no protection against the first attack of distant melee units. I agree that the Ravager itself is a poor tank though.
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Also, it might be counter-intuitive, but gating actually works well with it. If you break it down, the charge happens. Ravagers most likely go down first, in a couple turns or maybe more if you're lucky. The doggies follow suit, again a couple turns max, if not one more turn.
Actually the dogs go down first in 90% of the situations, usually in round 1. The Ravagers are not as tough as they need to be but still can take about 4 times more punishment while being about two to (at most) three times less than the dogs. Plus - the Ravagers have a sort of no retaliation attack which increases their survivability while the Cerberi suffer huge casualties from retaliations.
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Kivo
Famous Hero
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posted March 01, 2012 04:54 PM |
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Edited by Kivo at 16:58, 01 Mar 2012.
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I just think that the Cerberus should have a passive ability called "Block", like the Minotaur did in Heroes4. This way as the AI attacks them quite often, sometimes they wont be harmed. We dont have to worry about the gating because there is still retaliation and we dont have to worry about changing the growth or maybe +1. When the Minotaur was blocking the attack with his axe, the Cerberus could block it with his armor, hiding his head. Just an idea
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted March 01, 2012 05:26 PM |
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Orcs I believe don't have one (what do jaguars do again, outside of charging?), but their units are overall rather buffed.
You serious? Apart from having the best initiative overall with their racial (i.e. highly likely that most of their units will act before the majority of yours), the Orcs have at least four creatures for immediate heavy damage-dealing. The Panther Warriors, the Furies and the Enraged Cyclopes can get to the enemy first line in one turn and the Centaurs have a no range penalty shot. Inferno is badly outperformed when it comes to first strike against Stronghold (as are the rest of the factions, save Sanctuary to an extent).
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Most likely, for the first few turns, the attacks on the cerberi would come from the units very close to it. If you keep the ravager close, they're not taking those hits, the ravagers are.
No, they aren't. Taunting presence needs the attacker to come in the vicinity of the Ravagers, do what it was told to do and then triggers. So the creatures next to the Ravagers have no protection against the first attack of distant melee units. I agree that the Ravager itself is a poor tank though.
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Also, it might be counter-intuitive, but gating actually works well with it. If you break it down, the charge happens. Ravagers most likely go down first, in a couple turns or maybe more if you're lucky. The doggies follow suit, again a couple turns max, if not one more turn.
Actually the dogs go down first in 90% of the situations, usually in round 1. The Ravagers are not as tough as they need to be but still can take about 4 times more punishment while being about two to (at most) three times less than the dogs. Plus - the Ravagers have a sort of no retaliation attack which increases their survivability while the Cerberi suffer huge casualties from retaliations.
Yes I'm serious. Their racial doesn't come into play when you talk about the first strike, because it's not available until after the first strike happened. Ravagers can go first (they have equal initiative with the highest on the orcs' side, the panthers). From there, if you cast mass speed, ravagers and pitlords for sure get to the other side before orcs make a move. Tormentors probably, especially if you stack chances on your side with artifacts and perks (and prayer the other didn't do the same). cerberi probably after panthers though. So then there's the panther taking his turn, and the racial only then comes into play. By then, some units are tied down into attacking ravagers or doing nothing, while the large archers (ie cyclopses and centaurs) are most likely tied up. The charge gets a lot messier, but I'm pretty sure it works still.
On ravagers, their power activates when they get into the vicinity of ennemies, and not only when the ennemy gets into the vicinity (I actually just tested that. it's true). So you are tying units down by having the ravagers charge across.
As for the dogs, they survived first round with 107 left in my video (and they survived the first round well in the other try I had before that). They died very soon the second round, but after they got another attack in. That's 2 attacks plus a couple counterattacks, all on the same targets (ie their debuff came into play too). And that was against a faction that is immune to the ravager's taunt, ie the dogs weren't even protected by the ravagers like they would be against anyone else. Maybe add another turn of survival with the ravagers actually doing their job, then? I don't think they're quite as bad as you make them out to be.
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted March 01, 2012 05:57 PM |
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Nah, I think you are just theorycrafting without actual experience. The things which you say are not impossible but most of them are very unlikely to happen exactly as you say. Hence - unreliable at best.
What have you tried the Cerberi against by the way? Necropolis? They are low priority for the Necro army but can't do much against it either. Why don't you try against a skilful Stronghold player and then come back to claim things? Just a hint: Inferno definitely CAN win against Stronghold, actually this is the only faction that is its relative equal, but not due to the dogs, period.
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Simpelicity
Promising
Famous Hero
Video maker
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posted March 01, 2012 06:38 PM |
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Quote:
Nah, I think you are just theorycrafting without actual experience. The things which you say are not impossible but most of them are very unlikely to happen exactly as you say. Hence - unreliable at best.
What have you tried the Cerberi against by the way? Necropolis? They are low priority for the Necro army but can't do much against it either. Why don't you try against a skilful Stronghold player and then come back to claim things? Just a hint: Inferno definitely CAN win against Stronghold, actually this is the only faction that is its relative equal, but not due to the dogs, period.
Well geez, I'm not trying to say they are going to carry your army, I'm just saying they're not worthless. Y'all seem to function on an all or nothing basis here.
Neither am I trying to say that there is no problem with inferno, that it can win no matter what. That's again just a case of me trying to point out they're not as worthless as everybody here seems to think they are. Also trying to show what they seem to be good at (although again, not sufficiently enough to consistently win with it).
Also yes, it was against necropolis. I take it you haven't watched my video then. It's kinda obvious if you do.
I'd love to test it more. I dunno about playing an actual human, that requires time, which I'm rather short of. Not to mention it's complicated. But if you give me a good orc hero build, I wouldn't mind trying to beat a hard AI orc with it as it's hero (and me as inferno) in a duel. I know it's not gonna be the same as a human, but hey, that's the best I can do. Can also make a video of it, too, to show how I did what I did and what happened etc. Done it before, can do it again.
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"You r the shakespeare of heroes vi, in every single battle i say: "he is gonna to loss"." - Cumulo88
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