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Danny
Famous Hero
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posted October 23, 2014 08:29 AM |
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moonshade said:
I also think Assassins and Furies should be merged, and that the Dungeon should have no more than 2 Dark Elf units (maybe 3 if the Chimera/Manticore is given a rider) with the rest being monsters.
Disagree, the only reason we only had 2 Dark Elf units in H6 is because the Faceless was there to represent another race. Since the Faceless might be left out due to the time jump, I favor adding another Dark Elf unit, maybe even bringing back the Shadow Witch. It makes no sense to add random monsters only to cater to H3 nostalgia, especially not the Medusa that would be a "Naga who abandoned Shalassa for Malassa", that would be almost as much of a disappointment as the Light Elemental/Blazing Glory fiasco. I would also like to point out that all 3 variations of Sylvan had 3 Elf units, it makes sense to accentuate the races if they are added to the lineup.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 23, 2014 08:48 AM |
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Danny said:
moonshade said:
I also think Assassins and Furies should be merged, and that the Dungeon should have no more than 2 Dark Elf units (maybe 3 if the Chimera/Manticore is given a rider) with the rest being monsters.
Disagree, the only reason we only had 2 Dark Elf units in H6 is because the Faceless was there to represent another race. Since the Faceless might be left out due to the time jump, I favor adding another Dark Elf unit, maybe even bringing back the Shadow Witch. It makes no sense to add random monsters only to cater to H3 nostalgia, especially not the Medusa that would be a "Naga who abandoned Shalassa for Malassa", that would be almost as much of a disappointment as the Light Elemental/Blazing Glory fiasco. I would also like to point out that all 3 variations of Sylvan had 3 Elf units, it makes sense to accentuate the races if they are added to the lineup.
First off, I'm not in favor of adding the Medusa. I agree that belongs with a Naga/lizardman faction. When that's said, I do think there's good ground of having less dark elf units. First off, there's no strict rule that all factions need to have the same amount of humanoid units, on the contrary I like diversity between factions where some can have more (Haven) while others could have less (Academy). Dungeon would fit naturally in the latter category, because H3 or otherwise, Dungeon is a faction in HoMaM that has strong ties to beasts, so it makes thematically and historically sense. Plus I wouldn't write out the Faceless, on the contrary I think both Faceless and Minotaurs represent some sort of demi-humanoids and thus makes less need for that many elfs. That was why I would suggest a line-up like this:
Core:
Troglodyte (mushroom style, tanky)
Assassin (with Fury strike/return attack and poison)
Evil Eye (ranged)
Elite:
Matriarch (ranged/caster)
Minotaur (melee offense)
Manticore (flying tanky)
Champion:
Faceless (caster/support)
Black Dragon (flying offense)
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What will happen now?
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 23, 2014 08:54 AM |
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Moderator note: Thread cleaned, those involved will know why, and I think it was specifically stated by Elvin long ago that baiting will not be tolerated, but if that has been forgotten, let me repeat it again: Please don't make posts with the sole intend of starting a flame-war or otherwise provoke unwanted debates.
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What will happen now?
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted October 23, 2014 10:14 AM |
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Considering that Heroes7 is enclosed between Heroes5 and Heroes6 (with the chronological order being H6 ---> H7 -> H5), we can't really deviate too far from the lineup between H6 and H5 (sticking closest to the one from H5) without severe ret-conning or really forced explanations. What do we have for either of the already existing line-ups?
H6:
Core: Assassin / Shade, Stalker / Chakram Dancer (ranged), Shadow Lurker / Shadow Watcher.
Elite: Manticore / Scorpicore, Faceless / Faceless Puppeteer, Minotaur / Minotaur Guard.
Champion: Shadow Dragon / Black Dragon.
H5 (compacting the 7 tiers into the 3 of H6):
"Core": Scout / Assassin / Stalker, Blood Maiden / Blood Fury / Blood Witch (melee), Minotaur / Minotaur Guard / Minotaur Captain
"Elite": Dark Raider / Grim Raider / Black Rider, Hydra / Deep Hydra / Foul Hydra, Shadow Witch / Shadow Matriarch / Shadow Mistress
"Champion": Shadow Dragon / Black Dragon / Red Dragon
The Assassin and the Black Dragon are the only two that appear in the same tier in either lineup. As such, H7 should have them there, as well. Notable differences are the Minotaurs (at Core in H5, at Elite in H6) and the female Dark Elves: in H6 they only existed as a Core unit, being a Shooter, but in H5 they have two, one being a Core unit that is a melee attacker and an Elite unit that's a Caster/Shooter.
In H6, not in H5: Manticore (Elite), Faceless (Elite), Shadow Lurker (Core)
In H5, not in H6: Dark Raider (Elite), Hydra (Elite)
The lineup in H7 has 2 possible Champions, so that gives a bit more room to add creatures.
For my personal line-up, I am not going to add new ones, just the aforementioned units. As can be seen, creatures appearing in either H6 or H5, but not in the other, are mostly Elite creatures, so that tier is overpopulated. Of all the possible Elites, I personally prefer to see the Hydra at the Champion tier, especially since it has already been a Champion before in a previous game.
For the Core, we lack a bit of population and we need to move down one of the Elites. My personal preference then becomes:
Core: Assassin, Shadow Lurker, Matriarch
Elite: Manticore, Dark Raider, Minotaur
Champion: Black Dragon, Hydra
Of these, the Matriarch and Shadow Lurker are Ranged attackers, the flyers are obviously the Shadow Lurker, Manticore and Black Dragon and the Large creatures are the Manticore, Dark Raider, Black Dragon and Hydra.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted October 23, 2014 11:34 AM |
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Maurice said:
Considering that Heroes7 is enclosed between Heroes5 and Heroes6 (with the chronological order being H6 ---> H7 -> H5), we can't really deviate too far from the lineup between H6 and H5 (sticking closest to the one from H5) without severe ret-conning or really forced explanations.
While it happens that my line-up pretty much does adhere to this, that is just coincidence. I can't be bothered to be shackled by lore, if that means sacrificing a good and original and otherwise fitting creature. Fortunately, developers don't seem to have those qualms either, as can be seen from some of the other line-ups (for instance the fact that Haven goes Griffin -> Wolf -> Griffin in terms of your timeline).
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What will happen now?
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Rakshasa92
Supreme Hero
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posted October 23, 2014 01:20 PM |
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Core: Troglodyte / Assassin / Basilisk (with poison, not petrify)
Elite: Medusa (Dark elf variant) / Minotaur / Manticore
Champion: Hydra / Argus (Evil Eye)
Sorry, I really hate the Black Dragon, most aweful creature ever.
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Stormcaller
Famous Hero
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posted October 24, 2014 06:55 PM |
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Line up:
Core/Elite/Champion : GUTS ( berserk )
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What makes a King? Some say it is a birthright, while others call it a destiny.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted October 24, 2014 07:21 PM |
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No Guts no glory.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Adilmaru
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 24, 2014 10:57 PM |
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Edited by Adilmaru at 22:58, 24 Oct 2014.
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You guys are forgetting that they are going to give us 3 armies to choose from. Maybe they are not going to do it, because they think that they made a mistake with the previous one, but I daub it..
So as far as I remember we got 4 choices in core line-up (Root Snake, Hunter, Fairy, and Dryad); 5(6) choices in elite line-up (Unicorn, Emerald Knight, Blade Dancer, Druid, and Stags; maybe you can count Treants there too), and 3 choices in champion line-up (Phoenix, Earth Dragon and Treant).
So I see here 12-13 units, and we are getting 8 of them. I expect to see in dungeon vote at least 12 units. What I expect to see is (don't forget that in dungeon introduction, they hinted few of them):
CORE
1. Assassins,
2. Evil Eye,
3. Some kind of female dark elven unit (ranged or hit and run)
4. And forth unique/new unit(like we got few of them in Sylvan line-up, I KNOW FOR TROGLODYTES BUT THEY ALREADY SAID THAT THEY ARE NOT GOING TO ADD THEM, it was more post to let us know that they didn't forget about them)
ELITE
1. Manticore,
2. Minotaur,
3. Cold One Rider?, that lizard rider,
4. Matriarch, or whatever her name was,
5. New unit
CHAMPION
1. Black Dragon, btw I expect to see him in all 3 line-ups,
2. Faceless,
3. Hydra,
This is just my thoughts, and I can't wait to see them next week !
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 24, 2014 11:04 PM |
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Valid point.
I'm not certain that the numbers will be the exact same, but we're likely gonna be able to choose from 4+ cores, 4+ elites and 3 champions.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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moonshade
Known Hero
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posted October 25, 2014 12:04 PM |
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Creature choices for Dungeon
Here are my creature choices for Dungeon. Mix and match as you will:
Core:
1. Assassin (female this time, and with strike and return- combination of H5's Assassin and Blood Fury units, with more clothes :-)
2. Troglodyte (given a new variety as fungus-men, sorta like anti-Dryads, physically-resistant tank units that release spores when damaged)
3. Blackguard (armored, halberd-wielding male Dark Elves)
4. Grim Stalker (the H6 Dungeon mounts, eyeless felines/reptiles)
5. Beholder
Elite
1. Minotaur
2. Chimera (replaces Manticore this time)
3. Matriarch (shooter and support/debuff caster)
4. Medusa (kinda fills the same nieche like Matriarch, but more might-focused and of-course with stone gaze)
5. Hydra
Champion
1. Black Dragon
2. Hydra
3. Faceless (deserve nothing less IMHO. Should be frail but powerful casters, one of the game's only Champion-tier ones)
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properkheldar
Famous Hero
Keeper of books
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posted October 25, 2014 02:06 PM |
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1. Soulscar clan - pain suffering madness
Assasins (melee, invisible, flanking bonus/backstab)
Lurkers (ranged, lingering damage/daze)
Medusa (melee, petrification)
Minotaur (melee, morale bonus, push aside)
Manticores (flying, melee, poison/paralyze)
Shadow priestess (caster/ranged, able to buff black dragons)
Black dragon (flying, immune to magic, breath/lingering cloud)
Hydra (melee, unlimited retaliation, attack all directions, immune to flanking, regeneration)
2. Shadowbrand clan - secrets of the soul
Assasins (melee, invisible, flanking bonus/backstab)
Stalkers (ranged, arching attack, no melee penalty)
Troglodytes (melee, immune to mind magic, spore aura/draws aggro)
Minotaur (melee, morale bonus, push aside)
Shadow priestess (caster/ranged, able to buff black dragons)
Basilisk (flying, death stare, poison attack)
Faceless (teleport, caster/dark magic, hypnotize, strike and return)
Black dragon (flying, immune to magic, breath/lingering cloud)
3. Nightshard clan - passionate about emotions like happiness/sadness
Assasins (melee, invisible, flanking bonus/backstab)
Minotaur (melee, morale bonus, sweep)
Lurkers (ranged, lingering damage/sadness)
Shadow guard (melee, rallying/demoralizing cry, counter before attack)
Manticores (flying, melee, poison/paralyze)
Faceless (teleport, caster/dark magic, hypnotize, strike and return)
Black dragon (flying, immune to magic, breath/lingering cloud)
Hydra (melee, unlimited retaliation, attack all directions, immune to flanking, fearfull attack/enemies flee)
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"Man spends his life in reasoning on the past, in complaining of the present, in fearing future."
- Antoine Rivarol
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Adilmaru
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 26, 2014 01:14 AM |
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You guys are really stubborn... We won't see Medusas and Troglodytes in Dungeon line-up... It is just not going to happen...
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Galaad
Hero of Order
Li mort as morz, li vif as vis
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posted October 26, 2014 01:16 AM |
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Adilmaru said:
You guys are really stubborn... We won't see Medusas and Troglodytes in Dungeon line-up... It is just not going to happen...
I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere Marzhin saying Medusas weren't entirely out of the question.
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted October 26, 2014 01:20 AM |
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From Marzhin comments, Troglos look very unlikely to be part of the lineups. Medusas on the other hand are rather plausible, or that was what I got.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted October 26, 2014 01:29 AM |
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Like SG I hope for lots of half-baked purple elves.
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Living time backwards
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Storm-Giant
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
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posted October 26, 2014 01:30 AM |
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And naked. 
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted October 26, 2014 01:32 AM |
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Storm-Giant said:
And naked.
Fifty shades of gray purple for you!
Pineapple follows, free of charge.
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Living time backwards
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Pawek_13
Supreme Hero
Maths, maths everywhere!
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posted October 26, 2014 10:15 AM |
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Storm-Giant said:
And naked.
I have just finished HoF campaign and Ylaya, to cheer up Duncan, who was in mourning after alleged Freyda's death gave him some indecent proposal which involved sexual intervourse in group. Thankfully, Freyda came back a while later. It would be interesting to see a Dungeon heroine or unit which uses her physical assets to seduce enemies, like Succubus in Heroes VI.
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War-overlord
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Presidente of Isla del Tropico
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posted October 26, 2014 10:40 AM |
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Galaad said:
Adilmaru said:
You guys are really stubborn... We won't see Medusas and Troglodytes in Dungeon line-up... It is just not going to happen...
I might be wrong but I'm pretty sure I read somewhere Marzhin saying Medusas weren't entirely out of the question.
Neither are trogs, though them being part mushroom was supposed to be a joke, but not many understood it as such.
As it stands now, both Medusas and Trogs are unlikely, but Trogs are more unlikely than Medusa. However there is a distinct difference between "unlikely" and "impossible". And as the great Ciaphas Cain once said, though I'm paraphrasing here,: "I'll take a slim chance of survival over a certain death any day."
Furthermore, the info on Trogs is several weeks old now and I do recall Marzhin saying that Trogs at the time weren't discussed. That may have changed. And they'll have 3 line-ups to fill before friday, assuming Dungeon wins and we get the line-ups the day after.
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Vote El Presidente! Or Else!
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