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kesnar
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posted May 31, 2010 12:39 PM |
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Edited by kesnar at 12:40, 31 May 2010.
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Geny
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posted May 31, 2010 01:12 PM |
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How about with Turkish provocators?
It was well-known that the Israeli would not let the ships come close to Gaza right from the start. But instead of trying to reach an agreement or sending the aid by land, the Turkish ships went on ahead. The last thing Israel needs right now is negative reaction from foreign countries, so it prepared to take over the ships with as little violence as possible and deport the people back to their countries peacefully. But the people on board started a violent resistance and Israeli soldiers had no choice, but to react accordingly to save themselves.
I think it's pretty clear that the real reason for this cruise was to provoke Israel, NOT to actually bring aid to Palestinian because the latter could've been done in much better ways.
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Darkshadow
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posted May 31, 2010 01:15 PM |
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This is just poor handling of the situtation.
They should have just escorted the ships into port but no.
I wonder what they will do with the activists aboard, saying that they will deport them is just saying, actually doing it is another thing.
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Geny
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posted May 31, 2010 01:21 PM |
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Quote:
They should have just escorted the ships into port but no.
What, like with a remote control?
Right now, the authorities say the same thing as before the actual capture - they will give the passengers the option to sign some kind of a deportation order (I just don't know how to translate it properly), those who will comply will be sent home on Israel's expense, those who won't will be sent to jail.
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kesnar
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posted May 31, 2010 01:24 PM |
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Quote:
It was well-known that the Israeli would not let the ships come close to Gaza right from the start. But instead of trying to reach an agreement or sending the aid by land, the Turkish ships went on ahead. The last thing Israel needs right now is negative reaction from foreign countries, so it prepared to take over the ships with as little violence as possible and deport the people back to their countries peacefully. But the people on board started a violent resistance and Israeli soldiers had no choice, but to react accordingly to save themselves.
Right...you are so right....[irony]
Are you kidding me...How is it legal for Israel to not let ships go to Gaza...
And to me going with soldiers is not as little violence as possible...
And no...the people didn't act violently...there was an active communication with some greek journalists right at the time when the israeli commandos boarded a ship...and they didn't wait at all to attack...Also another ship at some time changed course, but israel didn't let it leave, it boarded it as well
And finally...it was on international snowin waters...Israel has no right on them...nop one has any right on them...
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Geny
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posted May 31, 2010 01:31 PM |
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Quote:
How is it legal for Israel to not let ships go to Gaza...
How is it legal for Palestinians to shoot rockets at Israeli civilions? By blocking the shore Israel reduces the number of weapons smuggling routes.
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And to me going with soldiers is not as little violence as possible...
Alternative routes to bring in the aid were proposed, but were rejected by the Turkish organizers.
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And no...the people didn't act violently...
Then how do you explain the injured Israeli soldiers, some of whom have bullet wounds?
And yes, those are international waters, but when the security of Israeli civilians is at stake, the government is prepared to cross certain borders, just like any goverment should.
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Geny
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posted May 31, 2010 01:35 PM |
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I would also like to remind you that all but one ships were captured without firing a single shot. It was only on the Maramra (sp?) that the fighting occured, because the people on that particular ship came to confront the military in violent ways and the soldiers reacted to that violence as they should have.
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JoonasTo
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posted May 31, 2010 01:37 PM |
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Israel just did it a tad too soon. Everyone messes up once in a while. Pirates are pirates. This time they just happen to be israeli army.
Overall they're doing hell of a job waging a limited war without most of the world realising it. 
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Doomforge
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posted May 31, 2010 01:40 PM |
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Yeah, perhaps waiting until the ships reached coastal waters would do better - nobody would use the "piracy" argument.
However, if they decide they want no ships on their waters, it's their right. If Turkey sends those ships anyway against their will, they have to face the consequences. it's not that Israel attacked those ships on Turkish waters or anything.
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Geny
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posted May 31, 2010 01:48 PM |
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Letting the ships get closer may have been more favorable from a political point of view, but the closer they get to the shore the harder it is stop anything from actually getting to Gaza and that was the whole point of the operation.
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JoonasTo
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posted May 31, 2010 01:51 PM |
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Yup. And they fear rockets from the shore too. As I understand Isreal's waters are quite narrow.
And they weren't expecting resistance. You can see that from the number of wounded and dead on both sides. If they had been expecting the number would be smaller and probably close to zero on Israel side.
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Geny
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posted May 31, 2010 03:06 PM |
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kesnar
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posted May 31, 2010 04:23 PM |
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Yeah because when you see helicopters and boats full of commandos trying to board your ship, you should call them for a cup of coffee...right...
Also...@JoonasTo:The dead people on the israeli side IS 0 and the wounded is close to 0 with 1 being seriously injured and 9 just injured(all that comes from Israeli sources)
But whatever the case...killing 19 innocents is a CRIME...
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JoonasTo
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posted May 31, 2010 04:25 PM |
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19 dead on the other side and 10 wounded on your side is a complete disaster from an operation such as that. Either the soldiers were complete rookies(which they weren't) or they didn't expect resistance. I call the latter.
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DagothGares
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posted May 31, 2010 04:38 PM |
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Hey, kesnar, news flash: Morality ends where the gun begins.
Or to say it in simpler terms: Life isn't fair! I know! It shocked me too!
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Geny
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posted May 31, 2010 09:00 PM |
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@Joonas
So do I, and so does the IDF representative who clearly stated they did not expect such aggressive resistance.
@kesnar
If you know what's good for you, then you don't start beating up the commandos with metal bars either. If you read what I linked you'll see that the Israeli forces tried to avoid opening fire for as long as they could and only when the people on board stole a gun from one of the soldiers and opened fire, did the commandos return fire which resulted in loss of lives.
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Salamandre
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posted May 31, 2010 09:23 PM |
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What would you expect? Israel armies can kill a homeless man in front of televisions and still have an explanation and get out safely. Money, political power, that's all today.
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Geny
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posted May 31, 2010 09:30 PM |
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Did you ever consider the possibility that there just might be some truth behind those explanations?
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Lexxan
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posted May 31, 2010 09:41 PM |
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But what with attacking (Neutral) ships in international waters? Isn't that a bit... eh... drastic?
It's not like the ship was trying to bombard the Israel coast with fully-fledged artillery of anything.
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Geny
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posted May 31, 2010 09:45 PM |
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There was a risk of it smuggling weapons and men into Gaza. If that was true then it's exactly the same thing as bombarding the Israel coast with fully-fledged artillery because that's more or less what would've happened later. And since the flotilla's organizers refused to co-operate with Israel on find a mutual solution on several occasions, there was a risk that it could happen.
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