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Geny
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posted June 24, 2010 09:58 PM |
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The youngest of the attackers is nine years old? That's just sad.
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angelito
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posted June 24, 2010 10:23 PM |
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Quote:
Jews just do not have much luck in Germany.
I find it quite missleading if you do not mention it were ARAB youths who were the attackers...
But I guess this is how propaganda works....
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted June 24, 2010 10:25 PM |
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Edited by Geny at 22:25, 24 Jun 2010.
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If it makes you feel any better, that was the first thing I saw. (although one of the guys was German)
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OmegaDestroyer
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posted June 24, 2010 10:29 PM |
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There was nothing misleading about how I stated my link. However, I'll admit it's sad when the same thoughts are drawn out by a title.
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Moonlith
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posted July 03, 2010 08:17 PM |
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So, what about Iran?
Didn't they say they were gonna send a ship with aid-goods to Palestina and that they'd protect it with two warships?
Any news on that? Has it been blown to pieces yet?
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Geny
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posted July 03, 2010 08:20 PM |
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They canceled it because of Israel's "threats" or in other words warnings that Israel won't let it in. The Lebanese flotilla is put on hold for the same reason.
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Geny
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posted July 12, 2010 06:48 PM |
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The Eiland committee appointed by the Israeli Chief of Staff to investigate the military aspects of the boarding on "Marmara" has presented its conclusions. According to it the commando soldiers on the boat acted in one of the best ways possible and states that:
Quote:
At least four instances of live fire on soldiers were noted, though the committee believes there were six in all. In addition, a bullet removed from a soldier's knee shows the Turkish activists had prepared non-military arms to use against the forces.
It also states that the Israel Naval Force didn't even consider stopping the "Marmara" instead of boarding it, because it has no such capability.
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It concluded that this was not an option because the Navy has not yet developed such abilities, which take around two years to acquire. The army is discussing the option of doing so now.
According to Eiland the main mistakes were:
That even after the tension between Israel and Turkey rose there was not enough intelligence gathering on the IHH:
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The committee concluded that the IDF had chosen not to collect intelligence on Turkey and the IHH because the former is considered friendly and the latter unthreatening.
Eiland said this decision seemed correct, but that army officials should have taken into consideration the changing tides of Israel's relations with Turkey in the first months of 2010, which was also the time the IHH began openly discussing the flotilla.
That the Navy wasn't ready for violent resistance.
That even when it was clear that something is going on on board the "Marmara" the commanding officers did not see fit to change their plans and went on ahead with their original plannings.
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Even when the ships neared, and the Navy began to understand it had erred, no new set of plans was formulated.
Eiland said the Navy should have understood that the situation did not match its assessments and stop to reconsider the actions it would take.
Of course, this was only the military committee. The all around committee appointed by Prime Minister Netanyahu is only beginning its work.
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angelito
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posted July 12, 2010 08:03 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 20:04, 12 Jul 2010.
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How about letting independant guys investigate that thing, not isrealis?
Else I don't see any other outcome you mentioned above.
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Geny
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posted July 12, 2010 08:44 PM |
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Edited by Geny at 21:02, 12 Jul 2010.
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The reason nobody in Israel wants an independent investigation is because of the Goldstone report of the Gaza invasion. That report is believed here to be one-sided against Israel. Also on investigation of the dozens of accusations Goldstone made against Israel almost all of them were proven wrong and only one or two of them are now in Israel's courts.
In other words, strange as it may sound at first, an independent investigation does not equal an impartial investigation. So, instead this investigation will be conducted by Israeli experts with international watchers to keep an eye on things.
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Salamandre
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posted July 12, 2010 09:03 PM |
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Israelis investigating has as much credit as turks investigating it. I am not even reads that...
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Geny
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posted July 15, 2010 11:03 AM |
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An example of how things work when people truly want to help. (so far only in hebrew, sorry)
A humanitarian ship organized by a Libyan humanitarian organization was hell-bent on getting to Gaza just a few days ago. However, their purpose was to actually help the Palestinians and not create provocations, so when Israel and Egypt came up with an agreement that would let Libya to support Gaza by donating money and building materials directly to UNRA (sp?) they gladly changed their course to Egypt. All in all, no confrontation and everybody's happy. That's what happens when sensible people come to help the Palestinians.
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Salamandre
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posted July 15, 2010 11:11 AM |
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Geny, all this situation is far too complex and dramatic to just reduce it to "look how's going when everybody is nice". If Israel is at war with Palestine, it must search quickly for an accord and make peace.
If I want to visit my ill neighbor and help him, it is weird that I have to ask permission to the other neighbor and thank him if I am allowed to. Usually those situations are solved in court, but Israel proved to be outside international laws, so it is useless. It must find a solution for long term, so the fate of millions people do not depend of the daily mood of some israeli politics.
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Geny
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posted July 15, 2010 11:21 AM |
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Quote:
If I want to visit my ill neighbor and help him...
Like you said - it's much more complex than that.
Of course, this is a big problem. Of course, a long-term solution has to be found. Of course, in the end the Palestinians should have their independence and everyone should live in peace and prosperity. I never said otherwise. The point I was trying to make with my previous post is that Israel is not bloodthirsty demon some think it is. It does not sink vessels on sight and kills civilians for the heck of it. Israel actually does try to find peaceful solutions, sometimes it has better ideas and sometimes worse, but it does try. And it's much easier to to find a compromise when the other side is willing to think rationally instead of saying "Screw you! We have our plan and we're sticking to it no matter what!". I just thought that the difference between "Marmara" and the Libyan vessel would make it more clear.
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Elodin
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posted July 15, 2010 11:44 AM |
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There is no Palestine for Israel to be at war with. Israel is at war with cowardly Islamic terrorists. HAMAS does not recognize the right of Isreal to exist and would gladly kill every Jew if they could. There can be no peace with such small minded fanatics because they do not want peace. They want dead Jews. They have repeatedly proven this and broken every cease fire.
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Salamandre
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posted July 15, 2010 10:30 PM |
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angelito
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posted July 16, 2010 09:34 AM |
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Quote:
...such small minded fanatics...
Errrr....mhhhh...eee...yes 
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Geny
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posted July 16, 2010 10:16 AM |
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@Salamandre
Please tell me that you're not seriously affected by the manipulations done in these photos? Most of them don't even have anything in common and almost of all them cannot even be compared because they're taken out of context. It's just cheap emotions manipulation nothing more.
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Salamandre
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posted July 16, 2010 10:40 AM |
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@Geny: are you saying those are photo-shopped? If not, then maybe you can't see the reality from the other side as well.
Of course I am aware about the emotional aspect and "manipulations" that occur from it, nevertheless that's how more and more nations see Israel today, a fascist state with a pronounced taste for slaughter and oppress. The reality inside might be more complex than that, I agree with you, but it should be handled by Israel with more humanity and human life respect, qualities it lacks deeply. From my point of view, there is no difference between Hamas and Israel attitude, and that's a bad point.
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baklava
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posted July 16, 2010 01:05 PM |
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Can someone please explain the story behind the photo with those kids writing "from (x) whit love" on those bombs? Cause it made my eyes widen a bit.
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Elodin
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posted July 16, 2010 02:02 PM |
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Quote:
@Geny: are you saying those are photo-shopped? If not, then maybe you can't see the reality from the other side as well.
The reality is that the cowardly HAMAS terrorists launch rockets and mortar rounds from civilian population centers so that when the Israelis counterattack to take out the launchers there will be dead civilians. They they point their fingers at the Israelis and say "Evil Jooooows! Just look at what they did!"
It is a PR campaign that it seems many on the left are gullible for.
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