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VokialBG
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posted June 03, 2010 11:03 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 23:07, 03 Jun 2010.
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There was a protest here called "All for Gaza!" or something like this, learned it from the net. So, looks like people really start to support more the palestinian cause. There is "fight" at the national assembly for who we must support as part of the international community, anyway I have no idea what happend, most likely we are going to support the state supported by the EU.
I'm not sure, I still do not learn that part from the international law so I can't tell if Israel can really do it. It wasn't a battleship from one side, but it's a blockade and the ships were warned from the other side. And what was the problem with the ship? Note here, hunger can not be used was weapon in a war after the Geneva convention, so isn't this kind of blockade kinda... blocked? Of course only if Israel is in the convention, what I do not know.
What I'll like to see is finally end of the war there. But it looks impossible. Some concessions can not be made from the both sides? I really wonder why, it looks like madness for the rest of the world, a peace of land do not cost the lifes of generations.
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Geny
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posted June 03, 2010 11:13 PM |
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The blockade is not there to stop food or medicine, but materials that can be used for creating rockets (and of course weapons). Food and other humanitarian supplies are being constantly moved into Gaza by land as will the supplies from the ships after a security check.
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VokialBG
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posted June 03, 2010 11:18 PM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 23:18, 03 Jun 2010.
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Quote:
International waters are not my home, but my boat in international waters IS my home and you will be not welcome if armed, naturally.
True, it's the exterritory (if that's the english term), for example ship under bulgarian flag is like part of the bulgarian territory, attacking it is like attacking the state, doesn't matter if the ship is 20 km from Varna of near Argentina. Anyway I think they were not under the turkish banner, were they?
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Elodin
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posted June 04, 2010 12:09 AM |
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Edited by Elodin at 00:10, 04 Jun 2010.
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Quote:
My opinion is that Israel should be abandoned and the best thing for the people who live there is to get the hell out while they still have a chance.
Yeah, just give the radical Islamic jihadists Israel. Then which nation will you give them next? Apeasement never has worked. Jihadists want the world to bow down to Allah.
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DagothGares
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posted June 04, 2010 12:12 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
My opinion is that Israel should be abandoned and the best thing for the people who live there is to get the hell out while they still have a chance.
Yeah, just give the radical Islamic jihadists Israel. Then which nation will you give them next? Apeasement never has worked. Jihadists want the world to bow down to Allah.
Let's do this king Solomon style. We'll make a huge crater out of it and whomsoever leaves first, gets to have it! If no one leaves, then crater!
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Keksimaton
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posted June 04, 2010 12:17 AM |
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If we were all muslims we wouldn't be having this argument! Islam truly is peace.
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blizzardboy
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posted June 04, 2010 12:18 AM |
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@Bin:
That's an exaggerated analysis, don't you think?
Israel has a powerful 1st world military and nuclear capabilities. The only neighboring country that's a real contender to them is Turkey, and Turkey is largely another Americanized country. They're not going to do anything rash. Syria? Egypt? Lebanon? Please. They'd love to see Israel cease to exist, but they know it's not within their power. Israel's international reputation has slid to the point that even the US isn't that wild about being their buddy, but a conventional invasion would make that reputation take a 180. The Arab League is more intelligent than it used to be. Probably the biggest danger is that if the US decided to 'wash its hands' of the matter, who the hell knows what kind of leaps and bounds the special interest groups of secular crusaders in Europe could make. Hello embargo.
Israel gets talked about a lot because the media talks about it a lot because:
1) Israel is a western country, hence people give much more of a damn as opposed to what's happening in Burma or somewhere in Africa.
2) Despite the fanfare, it's overall a pretty safe place, so there's loads of journalists that go to the region. It's not so easy getting getting coverage of Darfur. 10-20 dead people on a boat is extremely minor in the grand scheme.
3) There are strong religious interests towards the region
If things go from bad to worse, Israel could just relinquish a fat chunk of its territory, then it could defend the rest with a lot more credibility. Understand though that Palestine is no friend of the neighboring Arab nations either. Syria sure as hell doesn't want them. It's not that the Arab countries love Palestine so much as it is that they hate Israel.
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xerox
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posted June 04, 2010 01:42 AM |
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Edited by xerox at 01:45, 04 Jun 2010.
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Why is Israel considered a western country when they basically have an apartheid system against palestinians & and the media is probably very controlled by the government etc?
Honestly, the best choice would almost be to nuke the whole middle east (except Qatar, Dubai and maybe spare Pakistan since its getting better) and then like half the worlds conflicts today would be solved. Of course, I am just trolling when I am saying that as I just realized that would lead to a million more conflicts.
edit: Now I will make you sad, today when we were buying fruit I choosed the spanish oranges!!! Now what are you gonna do?
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JoonasTo
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posted June 04, 2010 08:18 AM |
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Israel should just make gaza independent and close down it's borders.
If there's an attack from an independent nation it's only normal to retaliate. Then they have a legit reason to bomb the whole strait to smithereens and it won't be genocide.
But nooooo....gaza strip is too important we can't let them be independent. I don't quite get the reasons besides of arrogance. It's nothing more than trouble. I can get west bank. It's historically and economicly important but Gaza in it's current state? Only good for the israeli soldiers to sell guns for drugs.
But hey, israel wants war. It keeps on building those colonies on palestinian areas. That has been forbidden since the geneva convention. No other country has broken it since. Soviet union was closest with the aftermath of WW2 and Germany remake.
Hamas doesn't want war since they can't win. They turn to terrorism instead.
Both sides want to wage war so let them have their god damn war and stop complaining about it!
Israel is going to win and it doesn't have to nuke the middle east so what's your problem with it?
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Geny
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posted June 04, 2010 10:16 AM |
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@Xerox
Get real. Palestinians don't live in Israel, so the term 'apartheid' simply can't apply here.
And one of the reasons we're losing the media battle is because the government has very little say in what our journalists are reporting, unlike in extremist Islamic states.
@Joonas
Oh how I wish we would just announce their independence and let them boil in their own filth. Unfortunately, it's not that easy. If you think we want Gaza you're wrong, else we wouldn't have cleared out of it. It's just we won't the independence to come from an agreement (I'm not even sure if we can announce Palestinian independence all on our own). And that's where the trouble begins, because the Palestinians want much more than just the Gaza strip.
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darmo
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posted June 04, 2010 12:45 PM |
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Long life Palestina!
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Geny
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posted June 04, 2010 06:05 PM |
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I thank you for your deep and well argumented contribution to our discussion.
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Elodin
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posted June 04, 2010 09:14 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 21:15, 04 Jun 2010.
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Quote:
Israel should just make gaza independent and close down it's borders.
How would that change anything other than to make it harder for Israel to keep down the number of rockets HAMAS fires into Israel?
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Darkshadow
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posted June 04, 2010 09:36 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Israel should just make gaza independent and close down it's borders.
How would that change anything other than to make it harder for Israel to keep down the number of rockets HAMAS fires into Israel?
Could potentially serve as launching pad for Iranian missiles aswell.
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blizzardboy
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posted June 05, 2010 12:05 AM |
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Quote:
Could potentially serve as launching pad for Iranian missiles aswell.
So could any ship, or any adjacent country.
Iran isn't going to nuke anybody. Almost the entire culture straight up to the political elite thinks nukes are disgusting. I'd be a lot more worried about N Korea further developing them and trying to slip them out to whatever proxy they feel like. Jerusalem, boom, London, boom. Washington, boom.
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VokialBG
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posted June 05, 2010 08:51 AM |
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Edited by VokialBG at 08:51, 05 Jun 2010.
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There is another ship doing the same! LoL! This time from Ireland, but the israeli forces just fallow it.
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Geny
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posted June 05, 2010 11:18 AM |
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Edited by Geny at 14:03, 05 Jun 2010.
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They're here already? Well, let's see what happens.
For now - Israel has requested from the ship to change the course, the crew denied the request. Despite what has been reported in some TV channels (like Al-Jazeera) the Israeli soldiers haven't come aboard the ship yet. Israel's official stand is not to let "Rachel Cory" get to Gaza.
Edit: And it's practically over. No blood, no violence whatsoever. To quote an Israel Defense Forces official: "What happened today is the difference between peace activists and murderers".
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Elodin
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posted June 05, 2010 04:06 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 16:07, 05 Jun 2010.
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Quote:
No blood, no violence whatsoever. To quote an Israel Defense Forces official: "What happened today is the difference between peace activists and murderers".
Exactly.
@Blizzardboy
HAMAS controls GAZA. HAMAS denises that Israel has a right to exist. HAMAS fires rockets into Israel. Israel would be stupid to withdraw control completely from Gaza.
Iran's president has said several teimes that he wants to turn Israel into a nuclear wasteland. I'm not sure where you get the idea that the Iran regeime hates nukes. Maybe they don't want others to have nukes, but they have been researching nukes themselves.
And recently (March) Iran's president talked about the anhiliation of Isreal.
http://www1.albawaba.com/en/news/ahmadinejad-israel-reached-end-its-road”
Quote:
"Today, it is clear that Israel is the most hated regime in the world… It is not useful for its masters [the West] anymore. They are in doubt now. They wonder whether to continue spending money on this regime or not," said Ahmadinejad.
"But whether they want it or not, with god's grace, this regime will be annihilated and Palestinians and other regional nations will be rid of its bad omen," he added, according to PressTV.
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baklava
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posted June 05, 2010 04:25 PM |
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How convenient, that Irish humanitarian ship.
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blizzardboy
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posted June 05, 2010 05:20 PM |
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@Elodin:
Quote:
@Blizzardboy
HAMAS controls GAZA. HAMAS denises that Israel has a right to exist. HAMAS fires rockets into Israel. Israel would be stupid to withdraw control completely from Gaza.
Iran's president has said several teimes that he wants to turn Israel into a nuclear wasteland. I'm not sure where you get the idea that the Iran regeime hates nukes. Maybe they don't want others to have nukes, but they have been researching nukes themselves.
And recently (March) Iran's president talked about the anhiliation of Isreal.
http://www1.albawaba.com/en/news/ahmadinejad-israel-reached-end-its-road”
Quote:
"Today, it is clear that Israel is the most hated regime in the world… It is not useful for its masters [the West] anymore. They are in doubt now. They wonder whether to continue spending money on this regime or not," said Ahmadinejad.
"But whether they want it or not, with god's grace, this regime will be annihilated and Palestinians and other regional nations will be rid of its bad omen," he added, according to PressTV.
I'm aware that Hamas is human garbage.
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There is absolutely no reason to think Ahmadinejad or his staff have any desire to use nukes. He has never said he wants to destroy or annihilate the nation of Israel. He has made it quite clear he wants the regime dead, which is hardly unique to him.
Iran is part of the east Asian bandwagon that wants to quickly develop and become a player in the modern world. Nuclear technology is very important to that means. Iran has claimed they only want it for nuclear power. I'm not sure that's true. They might want nukes, which I don't blame them at all for because then people will shut the **** up and leave them alone already. Either way, there's zero reason to believe they would use them for any reason other than to simply have them as a deterrence. Ahmadinejad has done some sick things to his people, as it is with lots of places, but he's not a mass murdering psychopath. Iran is prideful.
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