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Lexxan
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Unimpressed by your logic
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posted May 31, 2010 09:50 PM |
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I okay, I get their reasoning, but was it really NESSECAIRY to open fire? Couldn't they intercept them and search the vessel first. AFAIK, Militairy vessels are allowed to do this.
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Geny
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posted May 31, 2010 09:54 PM |
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Reading the thread really helps you know?
I said just a couple of posts ago that the soldiers tried to avoid using live fire for as long as possible. In fact, the main weapons they brought with them were paintball guns used to disperse crowds. Aside from that they had handguns in case of life threatening situation. When the people on one of the ships assaulted the soldiers, stole one of their handguns and opened fire at them, then and only then did the IDF commando return fire.
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Adrius
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posted May 31, 2010 10:00 PM |
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The media here seems to like bashing Israel... it's nice to get a bit of perspective from HC 
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Geny
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What if Elvin was female?
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posted May 31, 2010 10:01 PM |
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blizzardboy
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Nerf Herder
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posted May 31, 2010 10:01 PM |
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The guilty party is all of the above, as usual. I'd put more blame on the transport for going above and beyond the call of duty in acting like retards, though I don't see how the Israeli vessel can wiggle around the fact that they shouldn't have stopped them at that time.
Most people will feel compelled to support a side, the incident will eventually die down, a new one will eventually happen, etc.
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Lexxan
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Unimpressed by your logic
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posted May 31, 2010 10:07 PM |
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Quote:
Reading the thread really helps you know?
If you're expecting me to read every post made in OSM, I think that's a bit too much wishfull thinking, K?
Either way, it sounds decent enough. Question is, are they telling the truth?
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Geny
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posted May 31, 2010 10:12 PM |
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Lexxan
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Unimpressed by your logic
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posted May 31, 2010 10:43 PM |
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not yet.
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Geny
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posted May 31, 2010 10:46 PM |
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Ah, there's the translation I've been waiting for. Israeli representative speech:
Quote:
The deputy head of Israel's mission to the United Nations, Dan Carmon, told the Security Council, "Although portrayed in the media as a humanitarian mission delivering aid to Gaza, this flotilla was (not) a humanitarian mission. If indeed it were a humanitarian mission it would have accepted, weeks ago, during the planning stages, the offer by the Israeli authorities to transfer the aid, through to the port of Ashdod, to Gaza through the existing overland crossing, in accordance with established procedures. Many states and organizations, including the UN, are using those mechanisms on a daily basis.
"The Flotilla organizers not only rejected this offer, but stated clearly that (and I quote) 'this mission is not about delivering Humanitarian supply, but rather about breaking the Israeli siege,' as Greta Berlin, a flotilla spokesperson told the media last week."
[...]
Carmon continued to say, "What kind of Humanitarian activists demand to bypass the United Nations, the Red Cross, and other internationally recognized agencies? What kind of peace activists use knives, clubs and other weapons to attack soldiers who board a ship in accordance with international law? What kind of Humanitarian activists, some with known terrorist history, embrace Hamas, a terrorist organization that openly shuns a two state solution and calls for Israel destruction, defying conditions set by the international community and the Quartet? The answer is clear: they are not peace activists; they are not messengers of good will. They cynically use a humanitarian platform to send a message of hate and to implement violence."
"Let me remind the Council that a state of armed conflict exists between Israel and the Hamas terrorist regime controlling Gaza. Let me remind the Council that rockets and mortars are still being launched by Hamas and others toward southern Israel. Let me remind the council that Gaza is occupied by terrorists that ousted the PA in a violent coup, and that arms are continuously being smuggled, including by sea. Let me stress that a maritime blockade is a legitimate and recognized measure under international law that may be implemented as part of an armed conflict at sea," he added.
The Israeli official said the radical Turkish IHH organization, one of the primary organizers of the flotilla, announced just prior to boarding "we are going to resist and resistance will win.”
Carmon said IHH "has a radical anti-Western orientation. Alongside its legitimate humanitarian activities, it supports radical Islamic networks such as Hamas, and at least in the past has even supported global jihad elements, such as al-Qaeda.
"Being a so-called humanitarian mission, these champions of human rights also rejected in the initial planning stage an Israeli request to ask Hamas to allow the Red Cross to visit captured soldier Gilad Shalit," he added.
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Shares
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posted May 31, 2010 10:50 PM |
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Isn't it quite simple? It's a war so it's bad to begin with, but on top of that it is an unmotivated war (though(but not everyone) I think war is unexcusable(no, I don't want to start a discussion about that)). On top of THAT it is a single sided war. Israel is the country attacking, while Palestina just sits there and tries to survive. To call that a war seems kinda weird to me. A war should be when two (or more) sides fight, not one kicking the others ass while the rest of the world sits and discusses wether we really should use regular light bulbs, or the low energy ones.
This has for a long time been a forsaken war siege that really should have had a lot more attention. Just that such a simple thing as feeding the starving palestinians seems to be denied. Housing the people that had to flee or got their houses bombed or their farms conquered is stopped. Not until some small charity of OURS is in danger it is a subject worthing looking at.
I just feel that humanity is petty.
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Geny
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posted May 31, 2010 10:56 PM |
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When you're talking about people's houses being bombed, I assume you're talking about the Palestinians shooting rockets at Israeli civilians. Am I right?
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Lexxan
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Unimpressed by your logic
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posted May 31, 2010 10:57 PM |
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I somehow think that is not the case.
The arguement is adequate to me, although some part of it were kinda pompous... but whatever.
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Shares
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posted May 31, 2010 11:05 PM |
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Edited by Shares at 23:06, 31 May 2010.
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Quote:
When you're talking about people's houses being bombed, I assume you're talking about the Palestinians shooting rockets at Israeli civilians. Am I right?
Strangely enough the rockets Palestina fires gets attention. The israeli ones do not. Maybe people expect that Israel destroys things anyway, and thus don't care and then forgot. Fact is that it is far more palestinians that have become homeless than israelians in the war.
Also, most of the israeli houses destroyed were built on palestinian ground. It has become a habit of the israelians to start builing before the own the place (and if no one stops this war, it will be israelian grounds), and when caught burn everything before they leave.
EDIT: Any way, I've had a long weekend with three birthdays to celebrate, mothers day and going crosscountry today, returning late home and going crosscountry again early tomorrow, and I will now go to bed. Good night every body!
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Xerox
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posted May 31, 2010 11:59 PM |
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I never liked Israel (well, their government I guess) because what they are doing agaisnt the palestinians. The palestinians have nothing. They have broken so many UN rules and nothing is done. Now journalists all over the world, even from Sweden, is on that ship reporting and I really hope Israel gets some more attention. It sucks that Israel is just ignored and justified because "they are special" (jews).
Also they attacked on international water.
I can't believe Israel does this and denies this. It is so cruel.
There was even a stream where people could see the attack.
The US should withdraw all support from Israel asap but sadly, they will not...
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- John Stuart Mill
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Elodin
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posted June 01, 2010 12:45 AM |
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Just another case of Jew haters/terrorists provoking violence and refusing to be reasonable. They had the attack planned out, just waiting for Israel to board. Unfortunatelly some people don't think Israel has a right to defend itself.
I'll bet next time Israel doe not let 10 of its own get killed in an attempt to resolve the situation peacefully. Yet the Jew haters will still scream and point their fingers at Israel no matter how many Jews the other side kills before Israel fires a shot.
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friendofgunnar
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able to speed up time
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posted June 01, 2010 03:20 AM |
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@Israel, man...you guys got played. Better luck next time.
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Geny
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posted June 01, 2010 09:39 AM |
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@Shares
Quote:
Strangely enough the rockets Palestina fires gets attention. The israeli ones do not.
Really now? When was the last time you heard a report about Palestinian rockets in the news? Rockets that are being fired almost on a daily basis, mind you.
And the reason you don't hear about Israel blindly bombing Palestinian houses is because it doesn't do it, plain and simple.
@xerox
Are you serious? Israel has probably taken more heat than any other country in the world (except Iran) in the last years. All the while, the Hamas are violating the international laws by attacking civilians and warmongering and are hardly even repremended.
@FoG
Yeah, we know.
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Homam
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posted June 01, 2010 05:28 PM |
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@Geny do not take it personal but i believe a reasonable person couldn't have a civilized discussion with you.I understand you as an israeli you have some emotions that i cannot fully understand because i've never been there neither i'm an israeli or a jew if you want.But seriously you made me mad with your statements.At least mad.
14 people were killed at 70 nautical miles away from land!If you know some basic international law this is PIRACY.No country can act in no way outside of their land waters.So Israel's action was at least illegal.What you think makes israel different to disobey the international law?Does anyone forget already Mossad's operation?Does anyone forget already the gaza's invasion before one and half year?Does anyone forget already the occupation of palestinian lands?Does anyone forget already the illegal israeli settlements?No matter how powerful a country is, she can't act as she wants.
I would have expected some different behavior from the grandchildren of the so called "holocaust" generation.
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Elodin
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posted June 01, 2010 05:34 PM |
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Edited by Elodin at 17:35, 01 Jun 2010.
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@HoMaM
The flotilla was trying to run the blockade. No one denies it was headed to Gaza. There were obviously terrorists on board and the plan was to incite Israel to board and then to murder the Jews.
The radical Islamic jihadists don't recoginze the right of Israel to exist and of course the supplies would have gone to terrorists if the flotilla had made it through the blockade.
The film clearly shows the terrorists attacking first.
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Geny
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posted June 01, 2010 05:44 PM |
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@HoMaM
The last Israel thread before this one was made in times of the attack on Gaza. Back then I had a very civilized discussion with Minion and I think we even gained some sort of mutual respect for each other despite being on different sides of the fence. So, do not take it personal, but I believe that the fact that you can't have a civilized discussion with me doesn't mean no reasonable person can.
May I also remind you, HoMaM, that HAMAS is a terrorist group and that the sea blockade on Gaza was fully supported by the Security Council (at least until yesterday).
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