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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 23, 2011 09:45 PM |
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Still they are too many. How many magazines did he carry with him? Even if he always hits and kills a man with a single bullet, that's already more than 3 standard assault rifle magazines. He would need time to reload as well during which he's exposed. Weren't there any kind of police or security around, anyone with a knife at least?
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Adrius
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Stand and fight!
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posted July 23, 2011 10:01 PM |
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There's talk that he may not have been alone actually... might have just been the teenagers being confused and everything but who knows...
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted July 23, 2011 10:13 PM |
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Everytime I read Zeno's and Smithey's posts I'm reminded of the total noobishness around the world. Try to see the real world around you sometimes. It might surprise you.
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 23, 2011 10:16 PM |
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Quote:
Still they are too many. How many magazines did he carry with him? Even if he always hits and kills a man with a single bullet, that's already more than 3 standard assault rifle magazines. He would need time to reload as well during which he's exposed. Weren't there any kind of police or security around, anyone with a knife at least?
I guarantee that if anybody saw him reloading, he was too scared to move anyways.
In theory it sounds easy, in practice - no way.
put a man with a gun against 10000 children and the man with the gun will win provided ammo doesn't end.
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blizzardboy
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted July 23, 2011 10:32 PM |
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The problem with mobbing down one guy with a gun is that you have to have (at least) a small group of people being willing to start the charge. After that a bunch of the people might follow, but it's still doubtful. Would you opt to be one of the sacrificial lambs to start rushing the stage where he is? Even if you say you would, what you say and what you would do are two different things.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted July 23, 2011 10:33 PM |
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Exactly. Not to mention kids are more prone to panic.
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Azagal
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Smooth Snake
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posted July 23, 2011 10:38 PM |
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That's right it's the teenagers fault for reacting wrong, how silly of me.
Really?Is that really the conclusion some of you draw? They're ****ing kids they just watched somebody get shot right in front of them.They're children... I know it sounds corny but something like this just makes me ever so sad. It would be just as bad if they were adults but how somebody can take out his agenda on innocent children who have their whole lives ahead of them who have done nothing whatsoever to be guilty of anything... Such a tragedy.
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"All I can see is what's in front of me. And all I can do is keep moving forward" - The Heir Wielder of Names, Seeker of Thrones, King of Swords, Breaker of Infinities, Wheel Smashing Lord
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Tsar-Ivor
Promising
Legendary Hero
Scourge of God
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posted July 23, 2011 10:49 PM |
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"Everything happened to you, because you were there"
Harsh, cruel and simple, but true, my sympathy to the families of the dead and injured.  .
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"No laughs were had. There is only shame and sadness." Jenny
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shyranis
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted July 23, 2011 11:26 PM |
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Extremism is never a pretty sight.
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Youtube has terminated my account without reason.
Please express why it should be reinstated on
Twitter.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted July 23, 2011 11:53 PM |
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my sympathies to the friends and family of the dead.
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted July 23, 2011 11:55 PM |
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Edited by xerox at 23:56, 23 Jul 2011.
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I just want to clarify something.
Do not view "children" as 5-6 year olds.
The youngest people there were like 15-16 years old. It was a camp for a political youth party, and children that young do not join youth partys unless their parents force them into one.
Still, of course it is horrible and I have been thinking about Norway for the entire day.
Anders, the murderer, did plan this for a very long time though and had a pretty intelligent plan for it. Like how he started a company just to get the ingredients for his bombs etc.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted July 24, 2011 12:43 AM |
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Actually, you need to get around 1/3rd to actually do something before the rest of the mass follows. Scientifically tested some years ago. Can't be arsed to find the research article.
Now imagine getting 170 teenagers to charge a man with automatic weaponry when he starts gunning them down. You see him shoot and your friends die. Panic first. Resume thinking later. RUN.
I'm pretty much sure you'd fail. Not to mention there's bound to be atleast 50% girls. That doesn't exactly help the situation. They WILL scream and panic, it's in their social nature. Now realise that some of the guys are the same. You've got over 70% of the mass already lost. Good luck finding a big enough portion ready to rush him.
BTW. Assault rifle in full auto empties 30 rounds in 2-3 seconds depending on the rifle. Reloading takes around 0,3 seconds. I can do 100-120 aimed shots in a minute. So even if it was only semi-auto, he'd be able to take out 30-40 people before they get to him. 20% casualties render an unit unable to perform combat duties, that's talking trained soldiers, how much do you think teenagers can take?
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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blizzardboy
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Undefeatable Hero
Nerf Herder
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posted July 24, 2011 01:10 AM |
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I think teenagers and young adults would be more likely to charge than a bunch of middle aged people, just going from anecdotal observation. They have the hormones and the flare of youth... but it's extremely unlikely either way.
The other dilemma is that they had zero time to organize anything. On the September 11th attacks, the terrorists on one of the planes being hijacked were overwhelmed by the passengers and the plane crashed into a random farm field. In that scenario, you had a few terrorists with small blades directly in front of the pilot's cabin, and the passengers were herded into the back of the plane, so they had the chance to communicate with each other and then a whole pack of them mobbed the terrorist at once. The people at the camp were getting shot out of nowhere and scattered, and at that point you almost surely eliminate the chance of the gunner being mobbed by a cohesive crowd.
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"Folks, I don't trust children. They're here to replace us."
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Lexxan
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Unimpressed by your logic
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posted July 24, 2011 01:35 AM |
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Looking to the late News atm. Still disgusting 
I just had a really tantalizing realization though... had my parents been Norwegians, I actually MAY have been one of those younging slain on that accursed island. They are about my age. About OUR age. Their whole life ahead of them... just taken away like that.
It is just sickening.
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Coincidence? I think not!!!!
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Seraphim
Supreme Hero
Knowledge Reaper
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posted July 24, 2011 04:25 AM |
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15 years old are not kids people. They are teenagers. If forone thing teenagers are known for its emotional thinking. As for the idea of rushing the gunner.Even adults would not do that jsut because of being scared. The idea sounds possible without considering emotions.
What type of weapon did the gunner use? AK? They say it was an automatic weapon.What type? Imo,it must have been am SMG.Where the hell would he get the hands on a rifle anyway?
Not to sound stupid but this is everyday life.You see,every day some 60 70 people die because of bomb attacks in iraq, getting shot in libiya,syria,gaza and aphganistan and so on.
Appart that most killed victims were teenagers,the scale of the damage is rouphly the same as in arab countries.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 24, 2011 08:09 AM |
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Edited by Zenofex at 08:24, 24 Jul 2011.
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Quote:
Everytime I read Zeno's and Smithey's posts I'm reminded of the total noobishness around the world. Try to see the real world around you sometimes. It might surprise you.
If you don't have a first-hand experience on the matter, I think you should restrain from such comments. I already mentioned that I don't know the details and I only wanted to understand what happened. For example - how come someone armed to the teeth made no impression to anyone prior to that (including how did he smuggle all the weapons and ammo to the place of the shooting) or nobody on site had the nerve to at least engage him - again I'm talking about some kind of security, not hero-wannabe children. I still doubt that he was alone.
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wog_edn
Promising
The Nothingness
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posted July 24, 2011 08:23 AM |
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A 32 year old bodybuilder with several weapons (he wore a police uniform, in case you didn't know) and a lust to kill vs lots of teenagers? It were a political camp, not a martial art camp or anything. What were the kids supposed to do, charge a guy with a gun? (possibly an uzi, I know he had one I do not know if he used it on the island).
Also, it is easy to "smuggle" weapons. You only need to put them in the trunk of your car and no one will ask questions.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 24, 2011 08:35 AM |
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Man, I'm repeating one more time - forget about the teenagers. Wasn't there a single trained, armed and generally prepared man on the whole island with the guts to attack him? This is an island, you don't leave people there totally without protection, even if the protection means a few guards with hand-to-hand arms.
As for the weapons - I read something about assault rifle and that's not something that you can find in the shop. Plus the ammo for it and the ammo for everything else. The explosives were manually-made by "harmless" materials and couldn't be suspicious but what about the rest? And who said that he brought them in a car? I'm aware that you can pretty much look innocent until the very last moment and few people will notice that something's not right but we're talking about A LOT of weaponry here. Say what you will, the version that he was alone and didn't prepare well in advance sounds unreliable at best.
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wog_edn
Promising
The Nothingness
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posted July 24, 2011 08:43 AM |
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This is Norway, not USA or any of those other unsafe countries. We've never had anything like this ever happen to us, which means we usually don't bother with "armed guards" and things like that.
As for the weapons, he imported them from USA and only ordered weapons for which he had a license. He also ordered through smaller companies so that he should not hit a limit in the number of magazines. He had trained beforehand on hitting moving targets and had several magazines already ready so that he would not have to spend lots of time reloading.
Again, this is a peaceful country (usually) and the thought that something like this would happen have never entered our minds. As you may have heard, this is the worst thing to happen since WW2. It probably would have been even without shooting on the island, which speak loads about Norway in general.
Teenagers here doesn't expect a policeman to start shooting, however armed he is.
And the guy was pretty well prepared, he had spent a long time planning the whole thing.
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Zenofex
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Kreegan-atheist
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posted July 24, 2011 09:04 AM |
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Well, OK, I'm with you now. Where I come from shooting on the streets and bombing certain places is hardly something unheard of (it's not happening every day and everywhere but still...) and partially this is why I think this way.
A few related questions - did he actually own the assault rifle legally? Isn't there some kind of check system prior to entering the island (via a ferry?), especially with all of these teenagers? And where did he get the police uniform from - i.e. was it authentic or an imitation?
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This thread is pages long: 
